What size is an RMF?

[Jamesnkr]

I'm going to mount some pictures. To keep the costs down for customers (if they want) I want the mounts to fit Ikea or similar frames.

If a frame is sold as 10 x 8", is it a frame to fit an item that is 10 x 8, or is the frame itself 10 x 8? i.e. do I cut the mounts at 10 x 8, or 2mm smaller?

[David McCormack]

Before I made my own frames I used Ikea frames all the time for my photography. My own 50 x 40cm mounts fitted their 50 x 40cm frames. Any frame size should always refer to the glass size whether it be a custom or ready made frame. For a 10 x 8 frame cut your mounts to 10 x 8.

[prospero]

It's wise to actually get a frame and measure it rather than go by what's printed on the label.
Some of these things have approximate sizes, they might be described as 20x16" but are in fact
400x500mm. Or vice-versa.
Also, if they have bendy tabs as a means for holding the backs in you might need a tad more elbow room.

[David McCormack]

If you're mounting pictures for a customer who has a shed load of RMFs then it would be wise to get hold of them to make sure your mounts fit, as prospero says. But if you just want to give your customer the option of buying RMFs as opposed to them using a custom picture framer then all you can do is to decide if you're cutting your mounts to imperial or metric sizes. A 10 x 8 mount should be cut to exactly 10 x 8

[markw]

Do you sell most of your work unframed and you want to be helpful? wouldn't the most sensible option be to get in some readymades and offer them at the time of sale as an economic solution. You could then make sure your mounts fit the readymades you stock and some profit on the rmf.

[Jamesnkr]

Thanks. 10 x 8 it is...

Thanks for other suggestions. I sell some rather expensive pictures, which are framed. And some rather cheaper things which are not and so don't take up much room. I've no interest in selling RMFs as it's all about profit per square foot (whether of wall or floor space).

[David McCormack]

Are you going to cut your mounts to imperial or metric sizes? This John Lewis RMF is advertised as a 10 x 8 but they say "Please note: The inch measurement is a rounded measurement worked back from standard centimetre sizes."
John Lewis Frame

[Tudor Rose]

I would just choose whether you are going to do either standard imperial sizes or standard metric sizes and then go with that. You can pick up RMF in both these days and that way you are leaving it up to the customer which one to go for. As long as you cut the mount to the exact size you state (eg 10 x 8 inches) then the tolerance on the frame should allow it to go in correctly.

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

Are you going to cut your mounts to imperial or metric sizes? This John Lewis RMF is advertised as a 10 x 8 but they say "Please note: The inch measurement is a rounded measurement worked back from standard centimetre sizes."
John Lewis Frame

Wow... I guess this is the English way of adapting to the Metric System? Thanks for enlightening me David... Just curious if this photoframe is truly sized for an 8x10 or a 20x25cm picture? I realize that both will fit, but the 20x25cm image would be quite short and possibly reveal some white space dependent upon the rebate lip. Very interesting - Actually as a consumer, I would be quite angry...Which is it?

As you all know, over here on this side of the pond, we still use the English Imperial measuring system so Readymade and Photoframes are typically sold in 4x6, 5x7, 5x5, 8x10, 9x12, 11x14, 12x16, 16x20, 14x18, 18x22, 20x24, 24x36 sizes etc. What is interesting is that these sizes actually are produced to the sizes of boxed glass, which is how 95% of framers here purchase their glass rather than large sheets or pallets.

So when customers wonder why their photo or print is not proportional to the Readymade frame, we can blame the glass manufacturers.

BTW, James... Pre-built frames over here typically incorporate a 1/8 inch "standard overage" to accommodate glass, matting, etc. - Same concept.

John

[Not your average framer]

My own persoal experience is that I sell more mounts in non standard sizes, than standard sizes. Many of them are quite surprised that I don't care that they bought the frame somewhere else. Usually a charity shop, a car boot sale, or cheap from a multiple outlet store.

The actual sizes of the frame are not always what it says on the label and some frames have a very narrow rebate, which not only requires the mount to be cut accurately for the frame, but the narrow rebate makes life difficult as well.

It is not uncommon to find a frame with a narrow rebate, where the flexible tabs require a clearance to get the mount in to the frame, but then there is enough wiggle room in the frame for the mount to slide over to one side and the opposite edge of the mount to show.

Some frames have a groove on the inside of the rebate to engage with the fixings fitted to the back. It is not uncommon to find that these sort of frames will not accommodate the extra thickness of adding a mount and the fixings still to engage in the groove in the rebate.

IKEA frames appear to use a thinner thickness of glass, which is very easily broken (often by the customer on the journey home from IKEA). At times, there's no a lot of consistency between frame size tolerances between apparently identical frames when trying to supply a customer with mounts to fit these frames.

If a customers is buying frames from IKEA, or other similar suppliers, it can be helpful to find out if all the frames where bought at the same time. If some frames where bought a few years earlier, then there can be differences compared to a current batch. Generally, when cutting mounts I like to see the actual frames and avoid problems with the mount not being a proper fit.

I'm not singling out IKEA, or any other supplier in this instance. This is just something that seems to be accross the board with the cheaper imported frames. Also I find that too many of the larger frames have very inadequate frame moulding when it comes to strength and straightness / ridgidity of the mouldings.

Why do these suppliers use thicker moulding on the smaller frames and really thin mouldings on the much larger frames?

[Roboframer]

If a frame is sold as 10 x 8", is it a frame to fit an item that is 10 x 8, or is the frame itself 10 x 8? i.e. do I cut the mounts at 10 x 8, or 2mm smaller?

Cut them exactly 10x8 - if the people that made the frame state it is 10x8 and it is exactly 10x8 your mount won't fit, but if they had any sense they would have cut the 10x8 glass & backing first and then made the frame to fit - therefore your mount will also fit.

You could also add some small print like John Lewis have done, something like "This is actually 10x8 - some people have other ideas of what that is"

.

[Roy]

I was thinking of trying to make a few ready-made frames

But I'm not sure how customers fit their photo etc into the frame

Firstly, unlike a custom frame surely it's unlikely that a photo will fit the mount? would a better idea be to make some RMFs and sell mounts in various sizes to fit?
Secondly, I'm trying to think of the best/easiest way for a customer to fit the photo into the mount - I'm even thinking if a good way might be to supply some adhesive board with simple, written instructions for use? Or even supplying tape for T-Hinging which should be easy enough?

I am still on a steep learning curve and would welcome suggestions as to what works

Also, this will be pretty low volume, and looking at some websites that sell RMFs there are 100s of options. Any idea of say 10 or whatever popular sizes?

Thanks

[Graysalchemy]

I would avoid anything 'ready made' you are entering a mass market were the ecconomics will be stack against you. I would concentrate on markets were you can add value.

[prospero]

Roy. Been there, done that, still got most of them.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. I did have a rush of blood once when I started getting heaps of offcuts. I set to and sorted
out all the tastier bits of moulding that would make nice free-standing frames. I cut them into frames 5x4, 6x4, 7x5, 8x6
and 8x10. Then I chopped all the glass and MDF bits to suit. I did about 300 frames - all with stand backs.
They did sell gradually but inevitably the nicer ones get cherry-picked and eventually I had a big boxful of the weirder ones
which I got fed up with and donated to a charity jumble sale.

What Grays said is spot on. You'll never compete in price with factory made RMFs. So if you are going to do them, aim higher.
Work out an attractive and unique design that says 'quality' and sell it for the right price.

But all things considered you are basically on a hiding to nothing.

** I also did several hundred oval mounts to fit the frames. I do still have most of those.

[Not your average framer]

I make and sell ready made frames, some are using off cuts of moulding and some are using cheap mouldings that I have multiple uses for. Don't make lots of them, don't make too many really small ones and try not to waste time making frames which are competing for the usual "run of the mill" offerings that you see just about everywhere else.

Over time, I've found that there is not much point in stocking anything smaller that 10" x *8, but I do keep a few nice off cuts so that I can make a quick frame, or two while the customer waits. All the glass and backing board is from off cuts. Anything else does not make financial sense. I don't sell massive numbers, but it's still worth doing it.

I offen cut a mount, or two for some customers, which boosts the sale. It's a sprat to catch a mackerel, it get them through the front door and often leads on to framing orders, or repair work. It's not big money, typically less than £50 per week. Some weeks it's nothing at all. For me it's still worth doing, but perhaps not everyone's thing.

How you present them makes a big difference to how many you will sell. Oak frames usually are popular.

[Roy]

Good advice - I was thinking about better quality ready-made that those sold in shops, but not sure they would be appreciated.
You've saved me time and money, thanks, Roy

[Not your average framer]

My approach is not the only approach to RMF's. Some framers stock RMF's so that they can quickly and cheaply frame artworks for customers that either don't want to pay for a proper framing job, or because they don't have the time to wait for a proper framing job.

It's just another income string to add to your existing business. I know that there are members on this forum who do this and can tell you more. Hopefully one, or more of them will give their take on this.