Feeling pleased with myself!

Post examples...
Of framing styles or techniques that rocked your boat, and also of those that didn't
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Orde02
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Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Orde02 » Sun 01 Dec, 2019 6:19 pm

Hello all. I 'd imagine this isn't of huge interest to many, just a simple frame hand finished in black acrylic then waxed... but this frame is the first frame I made and earned money for!
Frame measures 260x260mm and I charged £40 for it. I have no idea what to charge yet for framing work and since it was for a friend, that's the price that I came up with. Would anyone tell me roughly I could have asked for?

The painting is by me too.

Regards

Matt

Image

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prospero
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by prospero » Sun 01 Dec, 2019 7:18 pm

Very Nice. :D

Consider this....

It mat be only a simple black moulding, but this is just the type of thing that is possibly the most problematic when using
finished moulding. Buy 100ft of that moulding already finished and you will end up using maybe 70% of it once you have cut
round the defects. That is 70% of it actually ends up in frames. Buy 100ft of plain moulding same profile and you will waste
considerably less. Most dings can be made good in the finishing process and even quite catastrophic damage can be fixed in
the course of the prep process.
Also, it the frame subsequently picks up a ding or two it can be repaired perfectly - not just 'touched up'.
Once you have 100ft of plain moulding on the plot it can become anything. If that moulding was available finished in a range
of 10 colours you have to buy 1000ft to keep 100ft of each colour in stock, 300 or so feet of which is destined for the bin or bunging
up the workshop waiting for a 'small job'.
Buy 300ft of plain and you have an infinite range and a minimal amount of scrap.
This is particularly pertinent to pro artists who haul a lot of pictures around exhibitions. Frames pick up dings no matter how
careful you are. It looks bad to display pictures in ratty frames.
As well as this your signature frame design will never be discontinued. Even if the plain moulding is disco'd you have the option
of getting some milled up.

I realise this wouldn't suit everyones' business model, but worth thinking about. :roll:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About

cleaver
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by cleaver » Sun 01 Dec, 2019 7:20 pm

Brilliant - congratulations, Matt. :clap:

Fantastic to hear someone taking their first steps.

Remember to cash the cheque - it's no use to you framed! :lol:

Onwards & upwards, buddy.

Paul
:head:

cleaver
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by cleaver » Sun 01 Dec, 2019 7:27 pm

Peter, great advice as always.

Very apposite (big word for me :lol: ), as Wessex seem to have disco'd a cushion my Mrs wanted for a couple of her oils.

So I bought several sticks of plain obeche to finish up. What's the best way to emulate flat colours, Mr P? The colours she wanted were an ivory and dark green. Would paint (emulsion) pots be the way to go....and should I seal them after - if so, what with?

Sorry to barge in on your thread, Matt :roll:

Paul :D
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Not your average framer
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Not your average framer » Sun 01 Dec, 2019 7:37 pm

I don't know why, but I can't see the image.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer

Bertie
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Bertie » Sun 01 Dec, 2019 10:08 pm

And so you should! Nice work on both fronts.

B.

fusionframer
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by fusionframer » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 8:31 am

Nice finish, really smart.

Paul,

I use farrow and ball tester pots. Slipper satin in a nice ivory finish, but there are lots of off whites and greys and greens. A small pot goes a long way.

I apply with a sponge to avoid brush marks, and then apply a liberon neutral wax. Don't use clear wax as that seems to make whites go yellowish.

Nick
www.fusionframing.co.uk

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cleaver
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by cleaver » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 9:11 am

Thanks so much for that, Nick.

The one we're trying to match still had grain showing, do you reckon this method will do that?

:D
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fusionframer
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by fusionframer » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 9:44 am

Yes, just paint straight on, no gesso or undercoat. 2 to 3 coats and then wax and you will still see grain
15752797800165957037422428804106.jpg
This is first coat on one, just doing now. It is on oak, but will show grain on obeche as well.

Nick
www.fusionframing.co.uk

Never trust a dog with orange eyebrows.

fusionframer
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by fusionframer » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 9:59 am

And next one, farrow and ball "blue grey" on obeche
20191202_095710.jpg
I made 20 frames yesterday, today is painting and gesso day!
Nick
www.fusionframing.co.uk

Never trust a dog with orange eyebrows.

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David
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by David » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 11:25 am

Well done, we all had to start sometime, mine was a while ago, still have the first frame I did, remember it taking a long time.

I use acrylic paint for pretty much all my colouring, sponge applied, with a wax finish.

cleaver
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by cleaver » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 5:00 pm

Thanks Nick & David. Really appreciate you sharing that :clap:

Matt apologies for diverting your thread, mate.

Paul :)
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Orde02
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Orde02 » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 5:40 pm

No Problem Paul!

Matt

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Rainbow
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Rainbow » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 10:39 pm

Not your average framer wrote:
Sun 01 Dec, 2019 7:37 pm
I don't know why, but I can't see the image.
I couldn't see it either, but I've reposted the image in case that helps. I can see it now, can you see it, Mark?

Millie.jpg
It's a great painting of Millie, I'm very impressed :clap: What medium have you used? I only ask because it doesn't look like oil on canvas but there's no mount so I just wondered.

Orde02 wrote:
Sun 01 Dec, 2019 6:19 pm
Would anyone tell me roughly I could have asked for?
It's a great feeling when you make your first sale, isn't it! I don't do hand finishing myself but my gut feeling is that £40 seems a bit low for the amount of work that has maybe gone into it, but I could be wrong.

Orde02
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Orde02 » Mon 02 Dec, 2019 11:09 pm

Hello Rainbow. Thank you for reposting the image. The painting is actually oil, but it been painted on masonite rather than canvas. I cut and gesso all my own boards for painting on, I just prefer it over canvas.

Matt

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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Not your average framer » Tue 03 Dec, 2019 10:50 am

Hi Rainbow,

Thank you for re-posting the image. I can see it now.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer

Not your average framer
Posts: 8510
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Not your average framer » Tue 03 Dec, 2019 2:23 pm

Your gut feeling about pricing it at £40 is telling you that you are a bit out of your comfort zone on pricingand this is good, because this is another piece of the puzzle for you too get sorted. like all things it's a learning curve, but nothing to be frightened about. It's time to ask the right questions and try and figure a few thing out. It's not easy and takes a bit of time, but we all go through it at some time along the way. As your skills develop and customers respond to what you are offering, some things will become clear to you and your confidence willbe a part of getting into the comfort zone where you have the confidence to charge a bit more. For me, confidence and practice are two sides of the same coin, it is practice that leeds to profficiancy and as you recognise your own profficiancy you will become much more willing to charge the price that you feel your work is worth.

Beware of the race to the bottom, trying to beat someone else's prices. That's the way to ruin. It did not take me long to find out that making money has nothing to do with getting the work at all costs. Customers who chase the lowest prices, will soon disappear when the next guy comes along who thinks it's all about working for peanuts. If you are not big enough to persue the low price high volume end of the market, then it needs to be the high price lower volume end of the market. That's the quality end of the market, where quality of product and reputation will take care of keeping in business. My niche is the hand finished, stacked mouldings and especially creative end of the market. Am I a particularly sucessful businessman? Well I'm still getting by, I have good times and bad times, but I'm still here. However the better end of the market is clearly a better place to be when a recession comes along.

Pricing is rarely a hard and fast thing. It depends on so many things and getting it just right is so hard, for some people it's is a very natural thing that they don't have any problem ding this. Unfortunately, for many of us mere mortals, we find this a real struggle. It's not something to beat yourself over the head about, but if it does not come naturally, perhaps you could over time develop some sort of system. Such a system would include your costs, what you charged for your work at the time and some basic details like size, type of moulding and anything else which you may regard as relevant. Prices are often affected by you locaity, people in some areas will often pay more and in other areas people will pay less. Some of us still struggle with prices after many years and there are some items that I still struggle with myself, so don't think it's just you.

When I'm out and about and the opportunity arises, I like to check out prices in other shops and I am also always on the look out for nice ideas and presentation that stands out. Not every idea that I come up with is necessarily completely my own, generally it is a fusion of many things that come out of my brain, but some will be influenced by what I have seen elsewhere. I'm often looking for those little touches that will make my work stand out and help to justify my prices. Your customers will almost always know what they are willing to pay for anything and this will be based on a variety of relatively straight forward elements, or factors. I am located in a town which used to be a lot busier at one time that it is now.

There is new housing stock being built on the outskirts of the town and the town is going, but unfortunately very few of the new residents appear to shop in the town. They mainly shop in other towns where they work and just seem to come home to sleep, before going back to work. Passing trade from people on holiday, or those who just happen to be here by chance is a lot less since the credit crunch. So I need to consciously focus a lot of what I do to appeal to my customers on more than one level. Customers buy what they personally relate to, but also what project something about them to their friends. You may not notice it, but people are somewhat tribal in their own social circles and they like to be known for their good taste in the things they have around them and the reaction of their social circle to these things. You get to notice it quite easily in a small rural town.

Also I enjoy looking around auction sale rooms and seeing what people will go for and what they are not interested in. There are always reasons for peoples choices and these reasons can be quite informative and beneficial to understand. Prices are never just about price, they are also about perception. Develop the art of creating things which have the right perception and the price will change accordingly. Try not to view prices in isolation from the things that influence the potential for influences that price perception. Somewhere I have a very old punch cartoon of a newly wed couple, the husband is painting and the bride comments that she is sure that if he changed half as much for his paintings, that he would sell twice as many. The point being that you may get a better income by selling a lower volume, but at a higher price.

For myself, I have found that trying to get my prices right and getting what I am selling right, is a bit like trying to hit a moving target. Things change over time and keeping your finger on the pulse is something that I find needful. I am not saying that I've got everything right, but I am continually asking myself questions about what I am doing, why I am doing it, should I be doing it, are people getting bored with it and is the price right. You price it too cheap and you can make people think that it's something of little real value and it gets dismissed as not being worth buying. You charge to much and people won't pay it. Unfortunately experience takes time and some things have to be worked at, but if it's any consolation, I still struggle with getting things right after quite a long time in business. Keep going, things get better as you go on.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer

Orde02
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Re: Feeling pleased with myself!

Post by Orde02 » Wed 04 Dec, 2019 9:49 am

Mark, let me go and get a cup of tea and a biscuit before I start to read your post!

:D :D :D

Matt

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