Newbie wanting some help & advice... :)

Post examples...
Of framing styles or techniques that rocked your boat, and also of those that didn't
Johnny9
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Newbie wanting some help & advice... :)

Post by Johnny9 »

First of all a BIG HELLO to everyone here, I hope I can learn many things from you all & have fun on here too.......

Let me introduce myself, I'm Johnny from Sunny Oldham, I'm an Electrical Eng, but really fancy turning my garage into a worshop, and make Mirrors, Picture Frames & then onto bookcases etc....

First of all let me tell you my plan, I want to start making asap. first as a sideline, but then eventually as a main income, I want to move away from Oldham to South Wales & start a new less stressful life by the coast, so I want to set up now & do it for a year or so, to get some experiance before taking the plunge, I'm a big beliver in, "You Can Always Make Things Work, It's Just Down Yourself How Well It Works!!!"

So this is hopefully where some of you will help me, I need to know what machinery I will need to make Mirrors & Picture Frames, I have a rip saw, scroll saw, mitre saw, morticer, bench planer, thicknesser, bench sander and hand tools.
But have seen so many people talking about a Morso Guillotine & an Under pinner, do I need these?
Also need help with info on mounting, backing etc...

Also I would Really Love to tap into your knowledge, any help would be greatly appreciated...

I hope I can learn many things from you all & have fun too!

Hope to hear from you soon Johnny
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Post by John »

Hi Johnny,

Welcome to the forum.

You are probably asking too much in one question here. You will find it much easier to tease out a little bit of knowledge at a time rather than trying to get everything in one go.

Best advice - take some framing classes. It will give you a great start.
Johnny9
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Post by Johnny9 »

Hi John,

thanks for the reply & advice, I've looked for framing classes, but I'm struggling to fing them, do you or anybody know where in the Greater Manchester area I might find courses???

Thanks again for the advice & the welcome.... :)
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Post by w00dward »

Hi Johnny

I'm the same as you. I'm looking at starting off as a hobby and hopefully when I feel confortable with what I'm doing getting more serious.

I'm currently booked on a course in Warwick on Monday from a company called FrameCo http://www.clubframeco.com/. Another company who I know does courses is DIY Framing http://www.diyframing.co.uk.

I lurk here and on the Grumble listening to these guys and I've picked up so many tips its great. :D

As for books etc I buy my from the Amazon US, with the exchange rate I don't mind waiting 14 days for delivery. Got most of Vivian Kistler series of books at a great deal. :)

Have fun.
Paul.
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Post by Spit »

Another place to look for training is the fine art trade guild site, but couldn't see one right in your area, which is a bit surprising, really!

http://www.fineart.co.uk/Guildtrainerslist.htm

I'll be booking one myself soon.
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Post by osgood »

Welcome to the world of framing you guys!
My advice is to NOT treat framing as a hobby. It is a serious business where we deal with other people's valuables.

Learn from wherever you can that doesn't treat it as a hobby, because they might not teach you how serious this is!
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Post by Spit »

Ah, but like my previous livelihood, computing, hobbyists is the main pool from which adult framers grow from.

Don't knock 'em!
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Post by Roboframer »

Not sure where you are getting your facts from regards hobbyists turning professional Spit.

I started off framing my own stuff, but with a view to framing others' - from a shop.

Something like Johnny I suppose, so he is not doing it for a 'hobby' at all.

Anyway, the forum is already full of the advice he wants, use the search facility Johnny - you aren't going to get a crash course in one topic, complete with what to use and where to get it.

It's a bit like going to a musicians' forum and asking 'How do I play the flute?'

(You blow in one end and move your fingers over the holes and keys)

But one bit of advice I would give is this - start from the artwork and work out - you seem more concerned with the extremities - presentation.

That's the easy bit - your true colours are not on view - what is out of sight and mind - on most jobs, is what shows your true colours.

Be conscientious.
osgood

Post by osgood »

Spit wrote:Ah, but like my previous livelihood, computing, hobbyists is the main pool from which adult framers grow from.

Don't knock 'em!
Robo knows more about where framers come from than I do, in your country, so I defer to him!

How they start is not as important as how they grow, and if they grow! I have some doubts in that area!
The majority of people I know who are framers and started as hobbyists are still hobbyists and the quality of the materials they use is a testament to that!
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Post by Spit »

Roboframer wrote:Not sure where you are getting your facts from regards hobbyists turning professional Spit.

I started off framing my own stuff, but with a view to framing others' - from a shop.
The few professional framers that I know/knew in the past started out that way. It's much the same route as I'm taking, at this stage of the game I count myself as a hobbyist because I don't do it to make or save money, I do it because I enjoy it, and because I want to learn how to do it better. I didn't start with the intention of doing it for a living.

Over the last 2 years it has crossed the line from just doing my own art to having people come to me and asking for jobs to be done - enough to justify making plans to take the step up to a professional level, which I've started to implement.

In a way I see osgoods point about hobbyists staying hobbyists, it all depends on the attitude of the person to learning the craft, I suppose. But then, in the IT business I met people far more professionally qualified than me who I wouldn't trust near any PC or server I was in charge of, so it works the other way too. Qualifications are not always a guarantee of ability.
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Post by Not your average framer »

Spit wrote:Ah, but like my previous livelihood, computing, hobbyists is the main pool from which adult framers grow from.
Don't knock 'em!
I don't know where you got that idea from, I am yet to come across anyone who started framing as a hobby. Who ever told you that doesn't know much about framing.
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Post by foxyframer »

Having been in the business for many years now, I would agree with Ossy, Robo and NYA that framing is not a hobbyists' pastime. O.K. with friends, family and bits and bobs around the house.

When it comes to dealing with the general public; whole new ball-game. You are now in the realms of responsibility over the items taken on. Everything brought in by the public is precious to them and has intrinsic value, if not real value.
One big mistake and it's the street no one wants to walk on.

If you are really keen and have a natural aptitude, a good framing course is an essential first step to take. However, that will not teach you everything you'll need to know. Experience will be collected along the way, as with all trades.

Good luck and get it right.
Measure twice - cut once
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Post by w00dward »

I would agree completely with the hobby/professional definitions.

I would call myself a hobbyist at the moment because I am still in the learning stages and I'm not even going to touch any of my families/friends items until I feel I can do them justice and not going to damage them. But being a hobbyist doesn't mean I am any less interesting in learning and developing it seriously (hopefully into something which will get me out of IT).

Being in IT I'm completely familiar with the hobbyist guy who goes around working on other peoples machines. Many a time I've had to fix some of their work.

Your right Foxy that once you start putting your services out to the public its completely different. That for me is the next step once I feel comfortable with my abilities and I have the training and some experiance to back me up.

Anyway, you all provide valuable information that only years of experience can bring, for that I'm grateful.

Hopefully if I'm ever near any of your places I'll pop in and try to put a face to the name. :)
Paul.

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against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people.
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Post by Spit »

Not your average framer wrote:I don't know where you got that idea from, I am yet to come across anyone who started framing as a hobby. Who ever told you that doesn't know much about framing.
Well, there's two taking that path on this thread alone, and like I said I used to know some framers who started that way. From my point of view, it seems to be a common enough occurrence, perhaps it's just down to the circle of people we know.
foxyframer wrote: When it comes to dealing with the general public; whole new ball-game. You are now in the realms of responsibility over the items taken on. Everything brought in by the public is precious to them and has intrinsic value, if not real value.
One big mistake and it's the street no one wants to walk on.

If you are really keen and have a natural aptitude, a good framing course is an essential first step to take. However, that will not teach you everything you'll need to know. Experience will be collected along the way, as with all trades.

Good luck and get it right.
I couldn't agree more, but just because I described myself as a hobbyist at present does not mean I take a lax attitude to people's property. I've learned a lot of do's & don'ts from this site and others, when I do something new it is always done first (and sometimes repeatedly) on my own work/photos/oddities or as a blank frame . I don't experiment with other peoples stuff, and I don't use cheap materials. You won't find masking/duct/sello/double -sided tape, silicon sealant, dust, cheap mount/backing board, biro washlines or the like in my frames.

It's more than a hobby to me, I've always been serious about learning to do the best I can at it, regardless as to whether or not I earned any money out of it!

If you were in my position, would you be happy to stay as a good amateur , keeping it as a rather expensive hobby, or would you want to let it grow into something more and make a living doing something you really enjoy?
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Post by Spit »

Woodward: Massive coincidence here. We both were in IT, we are both looking at framing from the same direction..... and we're both from Coventry. What are the odds on that?
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Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Spit,

I fear you have not grasped the fact that there is a massive difference between being able to make a frame and having the neccesary knowledge and capabilities to be a picture framer.

It is first neccesary that you are able to identify the item which you are being asked to frame. This is so you can advise your customer correctly and so that you can frame it in such a matter that is not detremental to the item or it's future condition or value. You should be able to identify any items requiring or likely to require special treatment. Some items such as early photography are sensitive to the chemical environment in which they are stored or framed and will not survive if the picture framer gets it wrong.

A picture framer as a professional providing a service is legally responsible for an adverse outcome to the customer or the customers property if it can be shown that he or she has failed to follow correct methods and procedures or given correct advice to the customer. The customer has come to that framer with the reasonable expectiation that he or she knows what they are doing and the law makes the same assumption.

To claim that you know what you are doing and to never had any proper training is a sure-fire way of getting into trouble in most areas of business, but to do so in such a technically demanding profession as picture framing will get you in trouble far faster than most.

If you are really serious about becoming a picture framer, then you need to go and get some training - it is essential!
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Post by Spit »

Which, if you look above, is what I've already said I'm doing!

I have to wonder about this site. Some newbies are welcomed with open arms, others get the spanish inquisition. I think I'll go back to lurking, until such time (if ever) I work out the politics of the place.

Ta very muchly.
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Post by Not your average framer »

Sorry Spit,

I never intended to cause any offence and perhaps I didn't pick up on all that you had previously said, or realise that you might take what I said in a way I neither intended or expected. Please don't be put off from participating on this forum, it's a great forum because it's so informal and open to all. I'm sorry if you thought I sounded negative, it wasn't intended. It is easy to labour a point when we are not able to speak directly or face to face and not to realise how that may come across.

You are obviously very serious about becoming a framer and keen to get started. Have you had a chance to have a look at the kind of equipment which framers use? One days training with a training provider would mean that you would handle and use framing equipment for yourself and enable you to start planning for yourself the way forward. Also a lot of the issues discussed here would be covered during this time by someone who is good at getting it across a demonstration easily makes something clear where words often fail.

I hope we have put things right and that you will continue with the forum without any concerns.
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Post by Spit »

I apologise, I'm a bit oversensitive today as the wife is in for a minor op. It's nothing to worry about, but you do anyway!

Currently I own a Morso (I bought it well over 18 months ago) and a Gunnar F1 (a bit of an upgrade from my Logan ruler!), a logan hand underpinner (soon to be replaced by a minigraf), Bambi compressor, tabmaster point gun, assorted hand tools - like I said, an expensive hobby, though the Gunnar has been bought with a view to going professional.

I will be taking training, and plenty of it, in as many aspects of framing as I find and have the need for. Coming from an IT background, I'm used to having to re-learn almost an entire career every 18 months! I'm sure woodward knows what I mean there. I can assure you that I don't think I know it all already, and there are plenty of areas that I'd like to get into that would suit my future plans for a business - fabric framing for one, and hand finished mouldings like Prospero's for another. At the moment though, I feel I am capable of offering a basic framing service, and am being encouraged to do so by all the people who have had things framed by me.
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Post by osgood »

Spit wrote:I feel I am capable of offering a basic framing service, and am being encouraged to do so by all the people who have had things framed by me.
Steve,
It sounds to me like you are very serious about this. It is a very serious matter to purchase a CMC. I'm sure you will be a good framer, especially if you do follow through and learn from wherever you can.

At trade shows down here there are always plenty of seminars and workshops to attend, so maybe you might find the same applies up there!

It's great to have encouragement from anyone, especially those who have experienced what you do.

One word of caution though. The people who you have framed things for, presumably know less than you do about framing and can only make a judgement on what they see. What they can't see is far more important to the longevity of their precious items. It's probably not all that legitimate to use their opinions as confirmation of your framing knowledge!

We all need to soak up and learn whatever we can, but it is even more important to be able to differentiate between valuable and useless information. That takes some time and lots of listening and reading. I've been doing this for 22 years and I'm still learning! I'm booked in for three courses at the Sydney trade show next month!

Good luck with your endeavour!
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