Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

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Geoff

Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Geoff »

A picture more or less in focus. This is a simple frame gilded using schlagg leaf over a previously rabbit skin gesso ground. both yellow and red bole were applied as you would for gold leaf and the like. The finish was left bright and sealed with a very thin solution of diluted button polish. An easy finish for any framer...the schlagg leaf was adhered to the frame using very thin wundersize mix. As with gilding...the ground is the key to achieving a bright gold like finish that can easily be toned if required. Schlagg leaf is inexpensive and a quick process too.
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Framemaker Richard »

Hi Geoff,

I do similar frames occasionally although perhaps not quite as refined as your example, but I am always looking to improve my frame finishing skills :)
Do you use loose or transfer dutch metal? I find that wundasize (I use Roberson's acrylic size which I think is basically the same as wundasize) just ruins brushes, do you also find this? how do you clean brushes after using acrylic size? I have tried hot and cold water, solvents, and nothing seems to work for me!
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Framemaker Richard »

Could not attach an image to my previous post...
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Geoff

Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Geoff »

Hi Richard,

Personally I have never had a problem using wundersize and the like. I always use it very diluted indeed with a gilders mop just as using gold leaf. I think the key... is to always keep the solution very thin... bearing in mind the ground I apply it to. I usually use loose schlagg leaf as this results in a brighter finish. Of course this can always been toned down depending on whatever finish is required.

I don't have a problem in keeping brushes clean perhaps because I use it so thinly. I just rinse them in warm water and they are ready for the next time. When I visited a framer in Edinburgh however... he used the size much more concentrated than myself over a painted ground and the result was quite "liny" to use a term...but that's what he was looking for. When the frame was distressed...this was part of the desired finish he was looking for. I think your "brush issue" possibly relates to the concentration of the size used?

Lovely frame you posted incidentally Mark!
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by vintage frames »

I'm puzzled why you would use acrylic size on such well prepared frames. Compared to oil size, slower setting leading to a finer finish, acrylic size can remain soft and sticky long after being covered in foil.
Or at least that's my experience.
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by standenfineart »

Hi Geoff,

Reading your Sunday post and again your original, would I be right in thinking that you apply the Wundasize to unsealed bole with the effect that this absorbs the excess water mixed in with the size. Either way, beautiful result. I'd be interested to see your thoughts on VF's question and also whether you think an alcohol based top coat extends any softness.
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Framerpicture »

Good looking frames Geoff and Richard :D I would imagine a lot of 'elbow grease' has gone in to the gesso/bole preparation before before the leaf was applied- are there any short cuts to the endless sanding?
I have used button polish to distress schlagg leaf and found it gives a richer colour and does temper some of the brightness. I hope you don't mind me asking but what other products you use to distress/tone leaf?

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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Framemaker Richard »

Thanks for the tips Geoff, I will try and water the size down much more, I add a little water already to make brushing on smoother and to avoid the brush marks you mentioned, but will dry a much weaker solution.
I use acrylic size for convenience, both in the quickness that it reaches tack and the length it stays open. My frames like this are intended to be as quick as possible with minimum preparation, so that means a couple of coats of gesso sprayed on, quick sand, and two or three coats of bole. I rarely distress frames with this finish as acrylic size, in my experience, does not lend itself well to be being distressed. The surface softness is not ideal, but I don't find it a big issue, not for this type of finish/product.
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by vintage frames »

Richard
I agree and understand now why you choose acrylic size over oil size. Yes, acrylic size is both fast and certain, limited only by it's softness and finish. It was just my reflection on the amount of gesso work that goes into creating those frames, only to use a cheap final gild. I know, I know it's all down to cost....perhaps it's just I'm not a fan of schlagg leaf.
Do you spray your frame assembled?
I spray each length separately, sand with one grit, assemble, then re-spray the corners, and sand to smoothness.
Either way, sanding is a faff!
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Geoff »

To answer a few comments...Whether I am gilding (using gold leaf or non precious metals) I always prepare a frame to be gilded in the same manner. This is simply my way of working and does make a real difference to the finish when working with non precious metals such as schlagg leaf. Giding lines are easily accomplished too...just as with gold leaf. Yes I always apply diluted size over unsealed bole when using schlagg leaf. There is no need to seal it! When working with bronze powders... again I never seal the bole before applying this medium. Softness on frames can be achieved in many ways but a very easy way on schagg leaf... I use very often is this. Once the leaf has been applied depending on the finish requested...I always go over the leaf with a quite hot gelatin size using cotton wool. Not dripping wet just damp and rub it gently onto the frame. You will notice a slight change in colour at this point. Any imperfections will also reveal themselves so you will soon find out how well the leaf has gone down. Assuming it has... I add a small amount of yellow clay to the gelatin and again coat the entire frame with a soft brush and let it dry...It will look as if it has a very pale ochre film over it once dry. When it is completely dry get yourself a clean damp and a dry cloth. With the slightly damp cloth rub the clay off the area from each arm of the frame in turn then with the dry cloth follow close behind as if applying friction polish and gently rub the surface. You will see it immediately shine quite brightly. Remove as little or as much as is needed from the frame. Once you have worked yourself around the frame you will see that it has attained a softness that wasn't there before. The frame I posted was finished using exactly this method. Once dry...a very thin button polish was applied and the frame is as you see. The side of the frames were left yellow ochre. This is one of many...many ways of a simple finish using schlagg leaf. As frame finishers... we all have our own ways...recipes etc etc in achieving this or that. That in itself however... is such an interesting field.

Geoff
Geoff

Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Geoff »

Some info on spray gessoing. As mentioned in my previous reply we all have our own recipes for this and that and spraying is no exception. I have three different spraying ones depending on what I intend to do with the frame concerned. ie: one is quite a soft mix using oils and other agents etc...another is what might be termed a basic gesso recipe and the last one I use gives a much harder finer finish. However... regardless of this... the most important process to do whether spraying or brush gessoing is to first and always... "size" the timber. My preference is to use a thin warm rabbit skin glue size though I know there are others methods. It is essential to make sure you have a good bond between timber and gesso. Timbers that do not have a good bond will soon show in time resulting in the gesso cracking and flaking in particular. The spraying of gesso is just the beginning...there are skills in spraying that I wont go in to but issues like spray guns...pressures...how you spray...how many coats the list goes on and then of course we have sanding. I actually enjoy sanding though I appreciate it can seem monotonous to many. If spraying I always spray the completed frame. if spraying an arm works for you then thats fine..as I mentioned earlier...we all have our own way of working which is part of what make framers different.

Geoff
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by standenfineart »

Thanks Geoff, that's very generous and very interesting - I thought your frame finish looked a lot nicer than just button polish. I hope you've still got in mind the book or DVD idea. Ian.
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Framemaker Richard »

Thanks for the extra info Geoff, always good to know the details that go into creating a frame.
Dermot, Yes I gesso/spray the frame when assembled, interesting to hear your method, which I have not heard of before. I also find sanding a real pain but have got reasonably quick and efficient at it, many of my contemporary frames (what I do most) have some distressed paint areas and some texture is all part of the look, so these areas do not need much work at all, only the small areas being gilded.
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Framerpicture »

Thanks very much for all the hints and tips.
I'm quite new to this form of frame finishing and have learnt the little I know from the web and some really quite old books! . We are now successfully spraying gesso and now feel inspired to start experimenting with different recipes for gesso and different techniques like Dermot's.
In one book I have it suggests laying silk across the corner joint before applying gesso to avoid it cracking - is this something any of you do?
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Not your average framer »

I've always assumed that the prictice of laying silk across corner joints was only neccessary in the days when framed were mitred with a shooting board and joined with scotch glue and nails.

In more modern times with better accuracy of mitre cutting, underpinners, biscuit jointing and superior modern adhesives, I would suggest that framers using appropriate construction methods should be able to ensure adequate strength, durability and integrity of corner joints as to render the laying of silk across corner joints completely unneccessary.

Perhaps some of our more traditionally focussed handfinishing specialists can further enlighten us.
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by vintage frames »

I agree with "not your average framer". there should be no need to lay silk over the corners as long as you've done a decent job on the mitre joints. Where there might be a problem is when the moulding shrinks as can happen with pine. I use pine but I dry it well by the fire overnight.
Good to hear you spraying gesso, but just a bit puzzled by suggesting different recipes for gesso. I see gesso as only a wood grain filler with respect to it's use as a ground for gilding. Geoff will probably pop-up and correct me on this.
If you use one recipe that works then that's the one to use.
I spray the moulding lenghts first as I can the man-handle them on the bench for a rough sand.
Then I assemble the frame, spray the closed corners and finish the frame smooth. If you do try this method it's important,very important to damp the dried gesso before respray, otherwise you will get pin-holes.
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Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Framemaker Richard »

My teacher (Italian lady) mentioned a couple of different recipes depending on if you were gessoing a flat plain moulding of one with carved detail. She also thought the hardness, thickness, and any extra additives can vary depending on some techniques (that Geoff does much more than me) such as punchwork and incised decoration.
She also said that I should only bother to use silk on wide flat mouldings or maybe some box frames. I don't think it is so much the quality of the mitre, but the inevitable movement of timber during the years which causes the corners to crack, the silk just spreads the effect out, over the mitre and reduces the cracking. Personally I don't regularly use silk any more, just very rarely on wide flat frame.
Geoff

Re: Simple closed corner "schlagg leaf" frame.

Post by Geoff »

Vintage Frames: I say do and use whatever suits your needs. If you see gesso purely in terms of a filer and that works well for you then that's fine.

Regarding silking the corners. Yes... I do this occasionally on flat area's only and completely dependant on the timber used to make the frame initially. I use a great deal of poplar which I find is generally very stable timber so generally no need to do this when using this timber. I would also like to mention that..also...by choice...I do not use an underpinner in any of my framing. All of my frames are constructed using various joinery methods and are therefore much stronger and very stable. Doesn't matter what timber you use in many respects however...if wood wants to move it will no matter what you use.

Yes...one of my gesso recipes is quite soft and I use this as you have already intimated on frames that require additional detail such as punch work to name one. Regarding sanding though. I am fortunate in that once I have sprayed a frame,,,one it has settled and dried... they actually require little sanding. Some can be smoothed using other methods apart from sanding. I prefer brushing gesso to be honest...a lot more time consuming but when you start with a thicker solution for a few coats then gradually dilute other layers you do end up with a very smooth finish too.
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