A Nightmare on Oak St.

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kaptain.kopter
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A Nightmare on Oak St.

Post by kaptain.kopter » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 1:44 pm

I've just finished a job that I don't want to see again.

A corporate client requested 15 frames containing limited edition watercolours. The moulding was a flat 2" barefaced oak with a wax.

No problem methinks and sets to work.

Problems started when I started to cut the moulding. It was so hard that I had to take 6 nibbles for each chop amounting to 360 cuts.

I had to change Morso blades half way through as they'd been reduced to butter knives. The fresh set aren't looking too clever now and will probably be replaced soon.

The right hand rebate support has somehow broken, now hanging at a jaunty angle, so I'll have to order another one.

The underpinner was struggling to put hardwood v-nails into the moulding. As it's a Cassesse 486, they don't get much more butch than that. I think I'll now need a new hammer for it.

I pre cut the mounts, backing and glass in a batch and prepared to assemble the frames. Unfortunately, tripped over my own feet and kicked through my 15 sheets of glass. I obviously cut myself sweeping it up and even more obviously managed to spray O pos over the cut mounts and cut foam board.

After blinking back the tears and cutting new glass, mounts and backing, I managed to assemble the frames and contact the customer.

They're over the moon and would like another 15 next month.

I need a hug and a strong drink.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.

www.martinchadwickphotography.com

Moglet
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Post by Moglet » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 3:42 pm

Too far away to do the large scotch, but here's one of these...

((((((((((((((((((((((Kaptain K))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Charge 'em for some new Morso blades on the next batch! ;)
........Áine JGF SGF FTB
Image .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.

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prospero
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Post by prospero » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 3:44 pm

Well....... I think I need a strong drink after reading that lot. :shock:

Actually, there is a scientific term for what you have just experienced.

It's the "onedamnthingafteranother" principle. :wink:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About

osgood

Post by osgood » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 7:06 pm

Kaptain,
What a terrible time you had. You need a double mitre saw next!

The use of oak and other timbers is quite rare down here. In fact, most suppliers catalogues have no exotic timber mouldings at all. By the sound of your's and other people's experiences with oak, I don't think I would be offering it to my customers even if it was available.

A few year ago there were a few Tasmanian oak mouldings available, but it's not as hard as the oak you guys have. They were only available for a short while and were dumped. I guess not enough framers used them.

Spit
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Post by Spit » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 7:12 pm

osgood wrote:By the sound of your's and other people's experiences with oak, I don't think I would be offering it to my customers even if it was available.
Buck-buck-buck-buckerk! :P

You've got me nervous, KK. I've got four to do next week and my spare blades haven't been sharpened yet..... but when I cut a sample of the oak moulding I'll be using it didn't seem as hard to cut as my normal ash mouldings, and it seemed to underpin ok with a 15mm wedge. Maybe I got a soft length (fnarr fnarr)?
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Steve.
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osgood

Post by osgood » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 7:28 pm

I have discovered that with really hard wood it's better to use much shorter vee nails than normal. Then I throw away the corner sample!

Moglet
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Post by Moglet » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 7:50 pm

Steve, it's a forum for framing problems.... :P :wink: :wink:
........Áine JGF SGF FTB
Image .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.

Spit
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Post by Spit » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 8:07 pm

Moglet wrote:Steve, it's a forum for framing problems.... :P :wink: :wink:
Dang! Framersforum.com & flopsy.co.uk are right next door on the bookmarks :shock:
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kaptain.kopter
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Post by kaptain.kopter » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 8:19 pm

A mate of mine has some quite sizable bits of bog oak.

He was thinking of getting me to produce mouldings from it. It seemed like a very interesting project but I now think I'll steer well clear as it's supposed to be a lot harder than oak.

The bottles of Hobgoblin are calming me down nicely and Moglets hug was much appreciated.

I'm dreading going back into the workshop as I feel I may have left it rather untidy in the rush to escape. Probably looks like an indoor hand grenade range.

Osgoods idea of a double mitre saw is inspired as a local framer happens to have one and I might pop round cap in hand.

Thanks guys. It's nice to know you're all out there giving good advice and sympathy. I bet you're p*****g yourself laughing really!!
You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.

www.martinchadwickphotography.com

osgood

Post by osgood » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 8:24 pm

kaptain.kopter wrote:I bet you're p*****g yourself laughing really!!
No, not laughing, just thinking "glad it's not me"! :wink: :wink:

I hope you are adding in the cost of resharpening blades as well as the extra time involved in doing these frames!

Another idea for cutting this rock hard stuff....a plasma cutter or a laser! Oxy acetylene might work too! :wink: :wink:

Moglet
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Post by Moglet » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 8:26 pm

kaptain.kopter wrote:A mate of mine has some quite sizable bits of bog oak. He was thinking of getting me to produce mouldings from it.
I love bog oak - it's a very beautiful material. Might be worth trying out for the odd piece or two. The finished product could look absolutely stunning!
........Áine JGF SGF FTB
Image .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.

markw

Post by markw » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 9:36 pm

Well I suppose the oak could have split. Sure we have all had them - jobs that just never seem to go right. I love oak - but i hate it just as much.

Short wedge - high pressure with very positive downward pressure - then almost certainly the wedge will shoot out of the side of the moulding. you cant win.

fineedge
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Post by fineedge » Thu 10 Apr, 2008 9:45 pm

I had a stinking rich customer today who had bought a big mirror 130 x 80 cm in an oak frame about 6cm thick and 15cm wide. Will you take out the mirror, break open the frame, cut it down and make a frame for this painting to fit into, he says. I takes a look and says sorry pal find yourself a carpenter. So he loads the damn heavy thing back into the BMW SUV and says he thought I might like the business. I am not that hard up thanks!
Alan

avantime
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Post by avantime » Mon 14 Apr, 2008 4:12 pm

kaptain.kopter wrote:A mate of mine has some quite sizable bits of bog oak.

If you like I am happy to machine, cut, join and fill your next batch if you like. PM me and give me the details if you are interested. I expect it could all be done for less than the "hard" moulding has cost!

Avantime

Mary Case GCF

Post by Mary Case GCF » Tue 15 Apr, 2008 10:46 pm

Kaptain Kopter. I feel your pain. Group hug from Edinburgh. You've just had one of our "Wednesdays". Tomorrow everything will be much better......Oh, no, I just looked at the calendar. :cry:

Moglet
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Post by Moglet » Tue 15 Apr, 2008 10:53 pm

Mary Case GCF wrote:Oh, no, I just looked at the calendar. :cry:
Hugs are good any time, Mary! :wink: :lol:
........Áine JGF SGF FTB
Image .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.

kaptain.kopter
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Re: A Nightmare on Oak St.

Post by kaptain.kopter » Mon 02 Jun, 2008 6:43 pm

Okay, they've just asked for another 20. :sweating:

I've restocked the first aid box, fitted new blades in morso and mountcutter and left a large working area free of potential hazards.

There's a bottle of malt on standby and I've just got to summon the courage to tackle the job.

Maybe wait until next week............
You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.

www.martinchadwickphotography.com

foxyframer
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Re: A Nightmare on Oak St.

Post by foxyframer » Mon 02 Jun, 2008 8:44 pm

They were so impressed with the last batch K.K. or you wouldn't have got another order.

Ash is too bloody hard for my Morso blades. I always use a fine tooth circular saw with no worries at all, as long as you can rig it on the bench with level and solid stop ends. Cutting ash or oak or any of the real tough timbers is made as easy as possible. It makes the process much safer if you have help holding the length dead still while making the cut.

Hope this helps, no one needs stress in our trade, it doesn't go with the territory; keep taking the medicine; I like Islay malts personally.

Foxy
Measure twice - cut once

Roboframer

Re: A Nightmare on Oak St.

Post by Roboframer » Mon 02 Jun, 2008 9:19 pm

I've little experience of erk, in fact I've only got one solid erk moulding and it's only a half inch cushion.

But Nielsen do a very nice real bleached erk veneer over obeche, or something softer (than erk) - it costs more than solid erk! (They also do the same profiles in a real bamboo veneer and they are extremely sexy) I think Simons also do a real erk veneer - so, the same look with less swearing.

But ash, I love ash and have no problems with it at all; as long as my compressor is pushing out 8 bar, or close to, I can also stack two 10 mm V nails in it too.

I don't know why I've never tried a range of solid erks - would those who have, and ash as well, say that erk is more problematic than ash?

Mrs R sends a hug and I send a virtual shot of Bowmore Islay - don't dare put water in it, OK?

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Re: A Nightmare on Oak St.

Post by Spit » Mon 02 Jun, 2008 9:43 pm

I've done a few deep rebate 'erks', can't say I noticed any difference between it and the equivalent ash. If anything I've had some ash in that seems harder to cut!
http://www.classicbikeart.co.uk

Steve.
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