You can't be serious!

Not your average framer · Fri 11 Apr, 2008 11:54 am

A very good regular customer has just asked me to conservation frame some limited edition prints with museum glass and no frame visible at all.
He just wants to see the prints only.

Anyone got any ideas how I can do this please?
Thanks in anticipation (Is this too optimistic?)

w00dward · Post by **w00dward** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 12:35 pm

And for your next trick..... your going to pull a rabbit (or is that a rebate) out of a hat!

Thinking about this some more could you seal the glass/matt sandwich with silicon around the edges or ask him what colour his wall is and paint the frame the same colour.

Sorry, not much help am I?

Framer Dave · Post by **Framer Dave** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 1:10 pm

Repeat after me: We are framers, not magicians.

Post by **prospero** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 1:10 pm

What we have here is a very up-market clipframe.

Good luck polishing the edges.

Tell them you have some invisble moulding in stock, but you can't find it.

OK. Joking over. There are some things that with the best will in the world just aren't practical and maybe this is one of them.

iantheframer · Post by **iantheframer** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 1:28 pm

Sometimes situations arise where compromises have to be made I think this is one of these. A clip frame would solve the “no frame” problem, but is definitely not archival. How about a very thin aluminium frame, possibly in a finish similar to the colour of the paper?

lynnbmack · Post by **lynnbmack** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 1:47 pm

It has to be Sellotape magic tape!!!

Not your average framer · Fri 11 Apr, 2008 6:12 pm

I'm looking into getting something fabricated out of clear acyrlic with a recess in the front so I can stick the museum glass in place with some silicone sealer.

The customer does not want a mount so I'm still thinking about how to secure the print in place.

At this stage I don't know how practical this is, but the customer knows it ain't gonna be cheap. Somehow, I think this will be seriously expensive!

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 6:35 pm

If you are enquiring in to custome made acrylic boxes I'd be interested in what you find.

If getting one tailor-made how about a groove on 3 sides so the glass can be slid in to it and then secured just at the top.

These people do clear frames I believe and shipping from tyhe US may be chea[er than tailor made boxes?

James Miller · Post by **James Miller** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 8:22 pm

Not your average framer wrote:...The customer does not want a mount so I'm still thinking about how to secure the print in place...

He wants conservation framing, but no frame, and no mount? His requirements seem not only unusual, but unreasonable.

One benefit of conservation framing (aka "preservation framing" in the New World) is that it encloses the item, protecting it from environmental changes by slowing the rate of change within the closed up frame package. The closure also inhibits migration of nasties into the frame.

So, the first response coming to mind is that if you can perfect levitation soon enough for his satisfaction, you still would not be able to call it conservation framing.

I very much enjoy a framing challenge, especially if it involves new techniques, but this one has me stumped. I predict compromise, with hope that you can steer toward more traditional framing, and away from destructive/non-protective sacrfices.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 8:30 pm

Not your average framer wrote: The customer does not want a mount so I'm still thinking about how to secure the print in place.

At this stage I don't know how practical this is, but the customer knows it ain't gonna be cheap. Somehow, I think this will be seriously expensive!

You could suggest that the customer just stop dreaming and come back to the real world! Magic is not really possible and this idea is not only not practical, it's ludicrous!

Conservation framing, Museum glass and no frame? How about you make the print invisible and use an invisible hanging system too. That along with the invisible Museum glass could be the perfect solution. They won't even know where it's hanging!

Alternatively give them a quote for 187,000 quid for each print and see what happens.

James Miller · Post by **James Miller** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 8:30 pm

Not your average framer wrote:I'm looking into getting something fabricated out of clear acyrlic with a recess in the front so I can stick the museum glass in place with some silicone sealer.

The silicone sealer is a bit frightening, but the acxrylic box idea may have merit.

Do you have access to Museum Optium Acrylic? It is a Tru-Vue Glass Co. product; CYRO #AR-OP-3 acrylic, 98% UV-blocking, abrasion resistant, to which Tru-Vue applies the same optical coatings used to make Museum Glass.

We have two companies in The USA that are now building acrylic boxes using Museum Optium Acrylic; Maryland Glass Company near Washington, DC; and Gemini Moulding/Showcase Acrylics near Chicago.

Perhaps one of these compaines could build the optically coated acrylic box with a discreet method of closure. Levitation? No, but maybe close enough.

James Miller · Post by **James Miller** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 8:32 pm

Or better yet, maybe you can find an adventurous acrylic fabricator in your own patch who could build such a box.

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 8:40 pm

James Miller wrote:Do you have access to Museum Optium Acrylic? It is a Tru-Vue Glass Co. product; CYRO #AR-OP-3 acrylic, 98% UV-blocking, abrasion resistant, to which Tru-Vue applies the same optical coatings used to make Museum Glass.

I had a quote for that recently -£450 ($900?) for a 4x3 sheet!

Post by **prospero** » Fri 11 Apr, 2008 10:52 pm

Easy. I have cracked it.

Frame normally using a thin barewood frame. Then get a buider to chisel a chunk out of the customers wall the size of the frame and plaster it in and make good the wall finish around, covering the frame. That should give the desired effect.

Not so much off-the-wall as in-the-wall.

How's that for lateral thinking.

Well you can always suggest it........

Not your average framer · Fri 11 Apr, 2008 10:58 pm

There is an engineering company in a nearby town which has the necessary skills and facilities. I intend approaching them about this.

I know them from when I used to work for another enigeering company which used their services. They are expensive, but the job will be good.

I know Silicone sealant is not the most ideal from a conservation standpoint, but it will be compatible with both the glass and the acrylic and has enough give to compensate for the different co-efficients of expansion between glass and acrylic.

However there are different types of silicone sealant, most during curing release acetic acid, but Dow-Corning (who make a massive variety of silicone sealants and adhesives), make some which cure by a different process and don't release acetic acid. I need to check this out, since I been out of egineering since about 2001, (which is long enough to be getting a little out of date).

As of yet I have no idea how I will mount these prints and I suspect that this is gonna be the most difficult part of the job.

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Sat 12 Apr, 2008 10:22 am

Check out Dow aquarium sealant. That, I think, doesn't give off acetic acid and it doesn't contain fungicides found in most other silicones.

If the frame is invisible then you'll need some invisible wall hooks, too. Maybe you could use silicone for that.

Better still, just stick the posters to the wall with wallpaper paste - that's reversible with a steam stripper.

Not your average framer · Mon 14 Apr, 2008 5:13 pm

Well, I'm back to square one! The company I wanted to ask to do this, no longer exists. It looks like it will have to be something I can do myself!

Not your average framer · Fri 18 Apr, 2008 12:33 pm

I've just had the customer bring in his prints and I've accepted the order.

However with a few changes:-

I'm getting a one-off moulding made for the job which will be painted the same colour as the print paper and the mount. Hopefully the frame will not stand out from the print.

After painting the frame, the glass and the mount will drop into a recess at the front of the frame and I will seal the glass in place with silicone. The frame lip will be very narrow, so as not to show.

Each print will be hinged onto the under-mount and will drop into place from behind. I'll do some pics when it is done!

Not your average framer · Sat 19 Apr, 2008 6:37 pm

Does anyone have any tips for sticking the glass into the recess at the front of the frame. I am thinking of sticking the glass in place with silicone sealer, but I want to avoid making it look messy.

I wondered if tapping the front of the glass with masking tape and removing it afterwards would be the way to go about it.

fineedge · Post by **fineedge** » Sun 20 Apr, 2008 10:40 pm

I always use tape just off the edge of the glass to avoid messing on the glass. I wipe the bead of slicone down with the finger and the pull off the tape immediately. Don't allow the silicone to set first because it causes carp when you then pull off the tape.