Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post examples...
Of framing styles or techniques that rocked your boat, and also of those that didn't
Johnny9
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Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Johnny9 »

Hi...

Ned a bit of advice again...... Well actually alot!!!

A customer wants clay hands & foot prints framing, the are of different sizes & shapes,
so I need a framing technique, that will work for all, some will be round, rectangle, square etc....

They need to hold the clay in place frimly..... And are Kiln Fired Pieces.....

Really need advice on this asap please - as customer has a business doing these & wants to go in together on this venture.....

Any help at all will be appriciated....

Many Thanks & Kindest Regards

Johnny.
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prospero
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by prospero »

Well the rectangular ones should be simple enough as you can make them any size. For ovals/circles it is probably a good idea to source the frames first and make the prints to fit what is available.

You could always make a ceramic frame integral with the prints. Just need to engineer some hanging points before firing.
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Roboframer

Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Roboframer »

The easy option is of course 'no nails', silicone or some other type of adhesive and I doubt that these things are ever going to become heirlooms. I'd not be too interested in casts of my Granny's feet/hands when she was a baby and only mildly interested in casts of my own, now grown up children.

Having said that, the most secure way to fix things like this is to fasten them in place with something passed through the backing mount. Problem with this is that the method is usually visible, even if, when done well, you do have to look very hard.

But, as this is a joint venture with you and the person making the casts - make life easy for yourselves and have them make them with what you need to fix them in place incorporated - like a couple of lengths of stainless steel wire that go in and back out of the back of the cast - totally out of sight. (I nearly said 'coated' stainless steel wire, but it wouldn't come out of the kiln coated!)
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Uncle Sumo »

Could you use a sink mount?
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by The Crofter »

In a previous life I dealt with a company called Bighead Fasteners (http://www.bighead.co.uk). They manufacture things like stainless steel fixings for embedding into fibreglass/moulded boats etc. The range on offer is extensive and will send a sample pack on request. It is possible that you could embed the fastener into the clay, add the hand print and then fire. The fixing (stud or threaded hole) would be totally invisible.
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by prospero »

I may have been labouring under a misapprehension here.... :?

Are we talking about prints or casts?
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Jonny2morsos »

We do loads of these but just supply deep rebate frames, mounts, backing board, glass etc.

The customer then fits the casts to the backing board does all the fiddly bits. I prefer it that way and they do not want to pay me for something they can do themselves.

Examples here: http://www.mashanana.co.uk/gallery.php

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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by kev@frames »

Johnny - this sounds a bit too familiar:

you might find a previous series of posts a while back on a customer who wanted exactly the same thing....initial email enquiries copied and pasted to several framers - and she wasted a lot of peoples' time. A real tyre-kicker. Hopefully this isn't the same woman ?

ah, heres one reference to it in a post entitled "nutters" http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... asts#p7715 I think (?) Merlin and I also had that one, and a few other people got her as well - we discussed it via PM at the time. Might have actually been back in 2006.... Babys hands and feet in plaster.
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Not your average framer »

Interestingly, I've just had one of these come in for framing. It's a set of foot prints and I've been asked to fix it to the front of the customers chosen colour of mountboard. It's not particularly heavy, but I've been thinking about the implications of this since it came in and wanted to secure it through the mountboard for added security. I'll been watching this thread with interest, to see how others do it.
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Roboframer

Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Roboframer »

Just buy Jim Miller's books - it's all there. Loads of alternatives; mostly dead simple, to adhesive.

Some methods you can see if you look hard, but if you have to do that, well, you ain't looking at the artwork, are you! Others, unless you know exactly how it was done, you can't - no matter how hard you look - I have sample pieces in my shop where I challenge customers to see the fixing method; they never do.
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Johnny9 »

Guys,

Great help & comments so far....

Prospero - Sorry, probably me not explaining too well - it is a clay slab with hands, feet etc
pressed into the clay, then kiln fired....

I was thinking of a solid backing board, with mount board fixed on top, with a hole cut in the middle of said mount,
which is smaller than the size of the clay, it is then fixed with no nails or similar, thus hiding the fixings....
with a front glass mount & then a box frame to finish.....

Please keep th idea's coming - and if anyone has pictures of doing one - please post or contact.....

Johnny.
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prospero
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by prospero »

Johnny.

That's what I thought. :D Sort of like what the movie stars do outside Whoisit's Chinese Theatre. :roll:

So what you end up with is essentially a ceramic tile with hand/foot prints. If it is fired then you don't really need glass. It would seem to me all that is needed is to plonk the whole thing in a frame. Dab of silly cone and bingo. :P In fact if you set a piece of wire in the back and made a decorative edge in the clay, you hardly even need a frame.

Or am I missing something?
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Johnny9 »

Prospero,

Yeah that's it pretty much... :)

Just wanted a little guidence from you guys, think i'll try the was i suggested,
with it no nailed onto a solid backing, with a mount board, with a hole in the backing mount board
(hope I'm explaining myself???)
Pretty sure she really wants a full sealed frame - But would their be any outgassing issues with using
an adhesive like no nails????

Also Guys n Girls, The way i thought of doing it would be in a box frame - I will use Arqudia ARQ Barefaced Obeche Framebox Moulding - Now this might sound like a really stupid question (i can see all your faces now ;))
but as it has a box at the back deeper than the moulding, what is your preferred way of hanging?????

Cheers
Johnny
Roboframer

Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Roboframer »

Johnny9 wrote: The way i thought of doing it would be in a box frame - I will use Arqudia ARQ Barefaced Obeche Framebox Moulding - Now this might sound like a really stupid question (i can see all your faces now ;))
but as it has a box at the back deeper than the moulding, what is your preferred way of hanging?????
OK - stack your 'Framebox' moulding to the required depth, fit a flimsy back to it and then smash a hole in it with an axe and stick your head through it shouting "HEEEEEEEEEERE'S JOHNNY"!

:D

That framebox stuff is flimsy and 'orrible!

If you fix wire/cord to the frame it has to go around the box - carp!

The framebox profile is too thin and weak to take a screw - well, maybe a screw eye/ring on something very light. Then there's attaching rivetted 'D' rings to the backing board - more carp.

Plus, if you do need to stack that profile, which looks naff anyway, you can see the join; you could of course cover the sides with something - more work. Then, without a mount behind the glass, you can also see the framebox mitre - more work.

Why not use a flat, fairly substantial moulding mitred on its side for your box and then put the front moulding, possibly to match, in the lip that that forms at the front. That way your frame sits IN the box and you don't end up with the normal box-poking-out-the-back-of-a-frame look. It looks like you've done it in one go.

Then use spacers to hold the glass and line the sides, with the right profiles you could do that with a single thickness of foam board, covered with the mount colour of your choice, or not covered at all, depends on the colour of the back mount.

Like this http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 746#p24746
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by The Crofter »

If this is a joint venture perhaps you can look at the depth of the tile to see if it can be produced to fit into a "standard" deep rebate moulding. Not sure how thick the tile needs to be to show a good impression but worth looking at if it makes life easier.
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Johnny9 »

Here's a picture of a sample clay slab, which hopefully will help.....
Clay handprint.jpeg
Clay handprint.jpeg (17.99 KiB) Viewed 23062 times

Roboframer - Thanks for being gentle with me..... :shock:

But really appreciate what your saying.... I've read your thread & it looks very impressive, do you adhere the foamboard/mountboard
spacers, if so using which method.... And please don't shout at me again!!! :oops: :D

Really want the professional look, and your rights about the framebox stuff, just need a bit of guidence please...

Cheers
Johnny.
Roboframer

Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Roboframer »

Well, as this is a joint venture, why not, like I said, make life easy for each other/yourself? The person wanting the frames wants a good price; you want a good method; as fuss-free as possible whilst still looking great.

Why agree to something that causes you problems that in turn will be passed on to/shared with the other half of your venture, and ultimately the customer, in the final cost?

In fact, why not come to a solution that looks even better than the solution that would cause you problems, and took less time to make but costs the same, or even more, because it looks the bollocks?

As Pat (The Crofter) said, why not source a nice deep rebated moulding and have the casts made, say, 5mm thinner than that rebate, they only need to be as thick as required to make the imprint - anything else is wasted and causes you more problems/work, and, as I said, also have the casts made with some sort of wire fed through the back of the cast. That way, all you have to do is make a few holes to pass that wire through - no need to cut any apertures through the mount, no need for any adhesive, no worries about out-gassing and no need to wait for any adhesive to 'go off' - 'cause you won't be using any! You'll get the job done quicker and therefore will be making more profit.

Lining the rebate, even if you source a moulding that needs no box or stacking, will still be a good idea - you'll be able to see the rebate so why not make it look nice. It's functional anyway - it's a glass spacer as well as a liner.

I attach the spacers with a combination of ATG and PVA, and, depending on the width of the 'lip' of the frame, colour the cut edges black, or line foam board with a black core mountboard.

Wasn't shouting at you BTW - just couldn't resist the connection between your username and Jack Nicholas in ' The Shining'

I did put a smiley after the caps :D
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Not your average framer »

Roboframer wrote:That framebox stuff is flimsy and 'orrible!

If you fix wire/cord to the frame it has to go around the box - carp!

The framebox profile is too thin and weak to take a screw - well, maybe a screw eye/ring on something very light. Then there's attaching rivetted 'D' rings to the backing board - more carp.

Plus, if you do need to stack that profile, which looks naff anyway, you can see the join; you could of course cover the sides with something - more work. Then, without a mount behind the glass, you can also see the framebox mitre - more work.
The framebox profile is also not easy to cut with a Morso or to join on an underpinner, as the edge under the underpinner's pressure pad is so narrow that it tends to crush a little and can look bad. Framebox ain't all that cheap for what it is and John (Roboframer) ain't kidding about it being flimsey either.

I often use a cheaper flat pine moulding instead and use it on it's side so the rebate is at the back of the box section. It's not only cheaper, but much more solid too!

A mount between the glass and the box section ensures a neat presentation and I use a Fletcher Terry Multipoint gun the fix the box section frame into the back of the normal frame. It's very quick and easy to do, also the Multipoint gun is well worth the money as it's a real time saver.
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Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Johnny9 »

Thanks guys,

Really helpful as usual....

Roboframer, I've done a copy from the thread you included in your post, and it looks really good,
i will be discussing the possibillities of a wire through the cast this week, but the double frame idea
look really professional, the only thing i find a little fiddly, is the foam spacer & mountboard idea,
but it does work!!! It may just be me!!!!!! ------but I may look into an alternative - any idea's guys???

I'll post a couple of pictures of my test piece & you can all comment upon it.....

Thanks again for all your help :D

Johnny.
Roboframer

Re: Clay Hand & Foot Prints

Post by Roboframer »

Johnny9 wrote: the double frame idea look really professional, the only thing i find a little fiddly, is the foam spacer & mountboard idea, but it does work!!! It may just be me!!!!!! ------but I may look into an alternative - any idea's guys???
You can minimise the amount of foam board strips you need by selecting a frame for the side with a decent rebate and a 'cap' frame that does not overlap it very much. A skinny rebate and a wide frame to cap it would be a bit of a pain - as indeed were some of the ones in my link!

Then there is 10mm foam board - I don't stock it, but would if I were doing loads of these things. There is also battens, and then maybe one strip of foamboard, plus a mountboard liner, but that would make for a heavier thing.

Another idea is to bond the required amount of boards (or larger offcuts of boards) together, complete with any mountboard liner, and cut the lot in one go, just extend your wallcutter blade - and also make the cut in a few stages

Personally I'm always happy to use up foam board offcuts in this way - but if it were a case of 'production' it would be a real pain!

Make sure you stick your foam board strips together, and to the frame rebate, with PVA, or woodglue; not double sided tape - well, use SOME double sided tape, just to hold it all on/together while the glue dries.

Looking forward to the pics - I'm doing one at the mo' for a fancy sea shell, will post a pic or two as well.
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