Opinions Please

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Opinions Please

Postby Roboframer » Tue May 23, 2006 3:36 pm

Had a few original oils to frame for sale in the shop and decided to do them differently to normal. "Normal" is a narrow liner, usually linen wrapped and a wide frame - so.



Image



But I prefer the look of work on paper, with a wide mount and narrow frame, so I tried this......


Image

The inner 'liner' is a 3" obeche scooped profile from Simons which I have limed, the outer is a deep rebated 1" ash, also from Simons, which has an antique pine wax.

What do you think? If you think it's garbage say so, I can take it! Anyone do oils in any other ways?

Got the idea from The Grumble, where one framer even bottom weighted the liner, by using two flat profiles of different widths. Top and sides from the narrower one, then joined the larger one to meet at the inside and overlap at the outside and shaved the 'ears' off.
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Postby John » Tue May 23, 2006 5:00 pm

Hi John,

We do a lot like this, though hardly ever lime wax, instead a couple of coats of magnolia vinyl silk emulsion - looks good and you don't have to worry if the wood is discoloured. The same treatment on the outer frame, and glass between the two frames looks very rich. Or, if you want to go to the top of the range, add your narrow liner to the inside and make a three part frame.
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Postby Not your average framer » Tue May 23, 2006 9:16 pm

Hi John,

Yes, much nicer I would say. Stacked moulding combinations give so many possibilities. Have you seen any of the mouldings from the Hand made moulding company in Washington, West sussex. Not that far from you if think!

Some of their mouldings are shown in their literature in different stacked combinations. Many of them look great! It's a shame some of the nice ones cost a bit. You might get some ideas from their literature as I did. You might wish to look around for cheaper alternatives, if you find the overall cost a bit too heavy.

I've often used the same Simons scoop moulding too! It's a lot of moulding for the money. I have a think blobby finishing technique which is looks good on this moulding. I get some "British Treasury sealing wax", (don't bother with the other type with the wick down the middle, it doesn't work as well), wrap it up in a few layers of cloth and smash it up into small bits with a hammer. Then paint the surface of the moulding with a suitable thick paint, (I've use all sorts, Lion's acrylic sanding sealer seems good too), scatter the broken sealing wax fragments on to the wet paint and wait for the paint to dry and fix the fragments in place. When dry, the fragments can be melted with a hot air gun without them blowing away. After cooling and a quick rub with some steel wool, you can paint over the whole lot according to your preference. It looks very trendy and goes well with minimalist subjects.
Cheers,
Mark
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Postby Roboframer » Tue May 23, 2006 10:09 pm

Mark,

Yes, The handmade moulding company - even though a stone's throw away I know very little about them, I saw some literature a long time ago, then an agent that we knew from when she used to rep for a publisher called 'Principia' called around with some samples. All I remember were that they were very very expensive and most had a 'paint stripped' effect. Maybe I'll give them another look.

Like the sound of your blobby effect and method - I used to do much much more hand finishing than I do now.

John,

Thought of painting - obeche isn't very interesting, unlike ash, but this batch does have some grain and, for beach scenes, I somehow like the look of something that might get washed up on it. You can't see from the photo but the grain sort of goes with the waves.

Beauty is that I can always sand it down and start again, but for the cost of this moulding.........


Like the sound of the same finish for inner and outer with glass between.

Do you paint after joining or before?

This profile would suit fabric wrapping too - something else I have not done for yonks.

Something else I have seen and may try, bevel the sight edge of the liner, mask it off and gild it. Hmmmm - NICE!
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Postby markw » Tue May 23, 2006 10:59 pm

When Larson Juhl were selling indipendently in the uk they used to sell a range of wide deep scoop wrapped slubbed silk - it looked very good in black silk and gave stunning depth to the work. These deep scoops can also work very well in object frames.
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Postby Not your average framer » Tue May 23, 2006 11:14 pm

John,

They do the same mouldings in plain wood too! Some of them seem to be in the Norfolk Mouldings catalogue. There's also a one man outfit down in Cornwall called Papworth Joinery who will run off small quantities of mouldings at low cost too. I was planning on getting him to make some for me before the heart attack early last year, but a lot of good ideas went on hold following that. Oh well!

By the way, I have been from time to time, working on some other finishes using hot melt glue too! There are various different materials used for hot melt glue. One is EVA, that's the stuff used on some (if not all) dry mount tissues, but the really interesting one is polyamide.

Polyamide is used a lot for moulded components in the automotive and aerospace industries, it needs a different hot melt gun (higher temperature), but it has a useful natural affinity with acrylic and cellulose paints. Polyamide can be textured very easily and it's viscosity can be varied over a wide range with differences in temperature without forming bubbles.

The behaviour of these hot melt glues is interestingly different to the sealing wax method, but currently things are only at a very early stage and needing some more working on!
Cheers,
Mark
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Postby Roboframer » Tue May 23, 2006 11:25 pm

I'd be more interested in their plain woods, But can they compete with Simons? Or even Rose & Hollis' prices?

I have had Simons run off a batch of a profile of my own design in ramin, very very good price. Rose & Hollis also will copy any profile you like in any wood you like. Caught them out once - are you familiar with the tiny 'Albor' mount slip? Arqadia sell it, so do Nielsen, so do Mainline and also Euro Mouldings.

I wanted a batch in plain wood, sent a sample to R&H - got a phone call from Bernie Rose "This is England, mate, there is not a mill here that could produce anything THAT thin!"

Got it from Albor, via Euro Mouldings in the end, finished it in 50 different colourways, sold well, can't be arsed these days!
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Postby Not your average framer » Wed May 24, 2006 9:12 am

Sorry John,

They don't even come close to Simons and Rose & Hollis prices, but their ideas often can be duplicated with mouldings from other sources. I can't but notice that the range of useful shapes and sizes is less than it was! This a general comment, not specific to any particular supplier.
Cheers,
Mark
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Postby Not your average framer » Wed May 24, 2006 7:40 pm

Roboframer wrote:Something else I have seen and may try, bevel the sight edge of the liner, mask it off and gild it. Hmmmm - NICE!


John,

Have you ever tried using hot blocking foil for gilding. I used to use it for gold lettering on leather when I used to be a bookbinder. It's quick, it's cheap and only needs heat and pressure to apply it. I've never tried it on wood - the method would need to be different, but that's how moulding manufacturers gild sight edges.
Cheers,
Mark
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Postby Roboframer » Wed May 24, 2006 8:20 pm

Mark,

No, I haven't, I'm a calligrapher so have used a lot of gilding methods for illuminating borders, letters, etc. Also have a lot of tools and stock of gold foil and real gold leaf.

Would have loved to try bookbinding, a lot of calligraphers are bookbinders too, and vice-versa.

Some of the sizes used in calligraphy are also useful for framing, acrylic gloss medium can be burnished, it works on wood. It's cheating, you can't burnish oild gilding, only water gilding, which is much more difficult.

But masking off a sight edge, plonking on some medium etc etc, is quick, easy and effective.

Also use acrylic gloss medium in a ruling pen, then adhere and burnish gold foild or even real gold leaf for a very classy finish to washlines.
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Postby Not your average framer » Wed May 24, 2006 9:15 pm

Hi John,

Sounds interested! No gesso? no bole? Is that what you are saying? Just acyrlic gloss medium? This is definitely something I've got to try!
Cheers,
Mark
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Postby Roboframer » Wed May 24, 2006 9:24 pm

Well, a good sanding at least, but that is included in the preparation of the whole moulding; the more prep the better, depends how distressed you want it. Wouldn't ne much cop on a large area, although I've never tried that.

Dries quite hard and can be built up in layers.
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