spacers

iantheframer · Post by **iantheframer** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 1:55 pm

Yeah I remember Fig 1 in A&T catalogue. If you have the latest catalogue (the loose leaf one) check out page 6, bottom right

Bill Henry · Post by **Bill Henry** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 2:00 pm

Although I use them occasionally, I’m not a big fan of spacers. If one looks at the frame from an angle, they can be seen. I think they look ugly.

I have used the foam board trick, but I’m not crazy about that either. One is left with a stark white or muddy black strip that stares at you tauntingly. Foam board does work to hold glazing in place, but I think they, too, look ugly.

One can lay strips of mat (mount) board on the exposed foam board, but then a visible seam between the backing and the spacers can be seen.

I’m sure that many of you guys use this method, so I’m not trying to be insulting, but, for those of you who haven’t, you might want to consider making a box out of mount board, then reinforcing it with foam board strips.

Determine how deep your shadowbox needs to be, say, 3 cm, and the horizontal and vertical dimensions of the “background”, say 50 cm x 40 cm. Add 6 cm (2 x 3 cm) to each dimension, so that your mat blank will be 56 cm by 46 cm.

Reduce the depth of your mat cutter blade (the bevel side) so that the blade cuts through the backing almost, but not quite, slicing through the surface paper. You will probably want to play with mat scraps to get this just right.

Set the guide bar to 3 cm and score the back of the mount board on each of the four sides.

Remove the four corner pieces, but leave the exposed surface paper. If you’ve scored the back just so, the pieces should be easily removed without any mat board (mountboard) “core” remaining.

Gently fold each of the four sides up at a 90° angle so that you have the makings of a box. Fold the exposed surface paper into a triangle, then tape each triangle flush against the exterior sides of the box. I use “licky-sticky” linen tape; it seems to hold better. The triangles also should be taped in opposing directions so the “box” doesn’t get skewed once you frame it.

Once you’ve got a semi-rigid box, cut strips of foam board the full length of each side plus 5 mm (the thickness of the foam board) by the height of the sides of the box. This height may be just a wee bit more or less than the 3 cm you originally scored. It depends a lot on just how deep the blade was set and the actual thickness of the mat board, so you should probably measure it rather than rely on your guide bar.

Adhere these foam board strips to the exterior sides of the mount board box. I tend to use PMA since I don’t need to apply a lot of pressure (and risk distorting the sides of the box) to make the bond.

You are left with a “seamless” box that transitions from the back to the sides with no sharp, glaring gap between the two surfaces. And, I believe that one has a more pleasant color (usually) seen at the side of this shadowbox than a stark white or black hunk of foam board.

Another advantage to my mind is that this reinforced “box” is self contained, so it shouldn’t need to be afixed to the rebate. It’s a lot easier to remove from the frame if the need arises.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 4:33 pm

Wow, that is exactly the way I make boxes too! I thought it was only me that did it. I also score the front of the board with something like a dead ball-point pen to prevent wrinkles when you bend the edges up.

fionnuala · Post by **fionnuala** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 9:30 pm

I love the diagrams.

so easy to follow.

now i'm goin to throw caution to the wind and risk bein laughed out of it, but do u mind me asking:

assuming tht the box protrudes beyond the rebate, how do put the frame on the box? u can't shoot framers points into box right?

or is it that u use a moulding with a similiar rebate depth to the depth of box or something??

vfmarky · Post by **vfmarky** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 10:10 pm

Bill - that's a great idea. I used to make up dummy packaging designs this way and had completely forgotten about the method. Partially cutting the back is indeed the right way to go. To add to your method in order to make a neat fold you can use the (blunt) end of your scalpel handle to score the front side as well - makes a neat fold. Thanks again Bill for jogging my memory.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 11:03 pm

I've used 'Bill's' method and I don't like it.

I like the look of it - no problem there - but the back of the whole thing is weak.

If the whole thing is less than the depth of the rebate then that is one thing - but - the backing board will be pressed against a weakened board -it has been scored so that it can be folded - scoring has weakened and weakened at a point where strength is quite important.

It's fortnight (two week) IMHO. Only OK for small things.

Foamcore spacers - lined with mountboard or not, give 3mm (min) of support to the backing board. A scored piece of mountboard was only 1.4mm thick before you scored it - so now it's only about 0.7mm thick and probably carrying something - after all this is a box frame - what you got - a cricket bat?

You going to depend on half a mil of cardboard to support that?

Good luck!

A scored 4 ply board, even if bolstered with foamboard, still has that weak point that foamboard/other spacers will not have.

Maybe there is a way around strengthening the thing you have weakened by scoring, but surely prevention is better than cure?

(Disclaimer - I'm probably talking bollix but at the end of the day I think I can get the same look with more strength and would not want to even contemplate the grief that the folded box would give me to achieve the same visual but stronger result in my photo above - and if anyone disagrees then please post a photo showing more visually pleasing results)

Post by **prospero** » Fri 18 Apr, 2008 11:20 pm

Wot about the olde box moulding then? It's ideal for.....boxes!

vfmarky · Post by **vfmarky** » Sat 19 Apr, 2008 12:33 am

[quote="Roboframer"]You going to depend on half a mil of cardboard to support that?

John, I don't know if this is what Bill had in mind but I see the box thing as an insert into the premade shadow box.
Doing it this way should mean there are no structural issues.
Maybe this will also address your rebate issue as well, Aine.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Sat 19 Apr, 2008 12:37 am

vfmarky wrote:Maybe this will also address your rebate issue as well, Aine.

Errrmmmm.... didn't know I had one!

Only teasing, Markie: it was Fionnuala's query. That's the problem with us Irish ladies: we all look the same...

vfmarky · Post by **vfmarky** » Sat 19 Apr, 2008 1:06 am

Whoops...sorry, lovely Irish ladies

Bill Henry · Post by **Bill Henry** » Sat 19 Apr, 2008 3:03 pm

Uh, huh … lovely Irish Ladies … yeah, right.

John’s criticism of this shadow box box is valid unless you reinforce and adhere the bottom with foam board or some other rigid backing. Certainly the weight of a cricket bat (or baseball bat) would distort the box unless it had more support. The mountboard box is more for visual appeal than for structural integrity, but, even so, by itself, it should provide a rigid enough and wide enough platform for the glazing material.

I’m guessing you probably wouldn’t be able to find a single spacer deep enough for such projects.

Ideally, the depth of the moulding should accommodate the depth of this box (plus glass and backing), but when it is not possible and the box peeks its ugly head out of the back of the frame, we fit the box to frame with Z-shaped “Offset clips”.

Sorry, it’s a lousy rendering. I don’t have my camera with me at the moment.

Offset clips come in a variety of depths (in our area) from 1/8” to 3/4” in 1/8” increments. One just has to find the best size and screw this offset into the moulding. At that point, the box ain’t goin’ nowhere.

I find it extremely difficult to build a box within an existing frame. There are too many variables to make the end dimensions come out exactly as you would expect i.e. the depth of the blade, the thickness of the mount board, the thickness of the foam board, etc.

I find it a lot easier to build the box, then fabricate the frame around it.

Not your average framer · Sat 19 Apr, 2008 6:27 pm

I have seen foamboard which has over time gone brown and become very weak and crumbly. I don't know if this degradation process applies to all manufacturers of foamboard, but this might be an issue if it used for making spacers.

Does anyone know more about this?

kaptain.kopter · Post by **kaptain.kopter** » Sat 19 Apr, 2008 8:54 pm

Not your average framer wrote:I have seen foamboard which has over time gone brown and become very weak and crumbly. I don't know if this degradation process applies to all manufacturers of foamboard, but this might be an issue if it used for making spacers.

Does anyone know more about this?

Wish you hadn't said that. I've just made 2 boxes out of foamboard. That was how I was taught and it's always seemed the best thing to use.

I also hate the 'cuckoo clock' boxes protruding from the moulding and only offer box frames in certain deep rebate mouldings.

Might have to rethink the foam board if others have experienced difficulty.

Not your average framer · Sun 20 Apr, 2008 9:58 pm

Hi KK,

Sorry for getting you worried, but I did ask if anyone can come back with with some further information on this, as I don't know if this is an issue to be concerned about or not.

Perhaps John (Roboframer) or Jerry can enlighten us please.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Sun 20 Apr, 2008 10:13 pm

For a long time I've only used two types of foam board - artcare and one I cannot remember the name of, I get it from Glass & Mirror and it's not expensive - American I think maybe 'artfoam?'

The latter I use mainly to fill the backs of deep rebated mouldings, and/or to make some fillips flush etc - but I've never had any problem with either.

I also used Arqadia foam board before these and never had a problem with that either. I did see yellowing with colourmount foamboard but that was a long time ago - I haven't used a colourmount product for years - no disrespect to them.