Nanny state

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Thu 21 Jun, 2007 7:41 am

So here I sit with my bowl of warm muesli and a cup of tea huddled over the laptop ( notebook) having heard the latest load of cobblers from on high.

The nanny state is at it again. We awake to hear that the ' go to work on an egg advert ' is not allowed to be broadcast on television because government have seen fit to decide they are bad for us.

Over the past 25 years or so I have observed 'Nannys' transformation from a relatively innocuous but necessary character in the nursery to a hideous rampaging entity running amok in our midst. Is it time to boot it back into the nursery where it belongs. We do have the power ( go ahead, broadcast the ad, I dare you ).

Maybe we should ' Enjoy eggs responsibly ' as the latest declaration on all alcoholic drinks, which cause far more health problems. The Advertising Standards code is completely barmy, and this goes to prove it, again.
Those in this watchdog unit really do have to get a life.

American scientists have recently think they have found a link between low cholesterol and Altzheimers - if this proves the case, will the next public campaign be to eat more eggs and that 2 a day will be minimum RDA.

So, it's no egg adverts - no badgers - no hunting.

Go to work on GM foods

Breakfast yesterday was TWO boiled eggs, if only to be cack-akkerd !!

Contributions were made to this post by my 'brothers in arms'
Steve and Margaret

Foxy

Post by **prospero** » Thu 21 Jun, 2007 10:41 am

It's amazing how people can get into a panic over a largely theorectical threat when all around are more obvious dangers that we face every day.
I remember the anthrax scare a while ago. People walking around with face masks, etc. Yet in the same period, how many were killed in traffic accidents?

A pearl of wisdom from comedian Dave Allen:

"It's reckoned that 20% of all road accidents are caused by drivers who are over the legal drink-drive limit. That means that 80% of accidents are caused by people who are sober. These people should stay off the roads and let us drunks get on with it".

Another from professor Benny Hill:

"have you noticed that 100% of all the people who condone abortion have already been born?"

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

..... just remembered this little gem.

There was a guy on TV ('Look North' I think) talking about the necessity of puttiing extra safety barriers on the Humber Bridge. Because apparently the said bridge is very dangerous for people wanting to commit suicide.

You couldn't make it up....

Bill Henry · Post by **Bill Henry** » Thu 21 Jun, 2007 5:56 pm

To me it is always worrisome that “public servants” try to politicize science.

Eggs … not yet!

In the early 1900s, prominent figures like H. G. Wells, Sir Arthur Doyle, and President Woodrow Wilson subscribed to the “science” of eugenics – the description of racial inferiority by the measurement of cranial size. In the 1920s the politicians in California and Georgia adopted this science, and began the involuntary sterilization of the “feebleminded” – almost always blacks and hispanics.

In the 1930s, this “science” reached fruition in Germany.

Some cities in the U.S. have begun to ban the use of trans-fatty acids in fried foods. If I’m foolish enough to eat four pounds of French Fries (chips), I’ve got more to worry about than the fatty-acid content of the potatoes.

We can all rest easy since we’re all too stupid to make our own decisions.

Take heart, Foxy, Big Brother knows best!

Post by **prospero** » Thu 21 Jun, 2007 6:22 pm

Call me Mr Cynical if you like, but I can't help thinking that all these safty regs aren't really brought in out of concern for benefit of the populus at large. They are a classic piece of arse-covering to avoid any possible future lawsuits. Sueing for compo seems to be a growth industry in the UK.
How many framers have had the job of replacing glass for clear plastic in the pictures at the local school?

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Thu 21 Jun, 2007 7:43 pm

Thing is Bill, we framers are all independent and lateral thinkers.

So that must put us up into the ranks of the so called 'chattering classes '.
Able to see everything for what it really is and not follow the majority with the herd instinct.

Yes, over here we have done the trans fatties, the salt, the sugar, the alcohol, the eggs, the GM strains. Those are just a small sample of the dietary strictures; let alone the recent over the top Health & Safety regs, latest one is due 1 July on smoking in public buildings. Don't forget ladies and gentlemen, have those 'no can do notices' up on the day or you will be in for the high jump with 'jobsworth' on your tail.

Mandatory government guidelines on almost everything affect our lives, thanks to President Blair and his delightful ladies, Tessa and Patricia.

Now we await President Brown with foreboding.

Viva la revolutione.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 4:24 pm

You've got the "Enjoy Booze Responsibly" thang over there, too! Over here they have posters in supermarkets telling you how to pack your grocery shopping...

Cultural homogenisation and rampant beaurocracy,eh? Huxley, Orwell and Kafka must be in the next world splitting their sides! My parents weren't this controlling (once I reached 21 anyway).

Thought for the day from the Native Americans:

"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room."

Life is about risk. If one doesn't take any risks, one doesn't get the chance to surmount them and develop a sense of achievement. If I wasn't prepared to take any risks, I'd still be a contract engineer and miserable.

First Edict from the Gospel According to Brussels:

"Thou shalt not think!"

Thank the gods for the "indepenent... lateral thinkers" in the framing business!

Teabreak over...

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 9:22 pm

On the way home tonight I bought three packets of tea. The boy on the till asked me if I wanted any help with the packing. Three items already !!

Next, do you have a nectar card? Yes.

Finally, the passing shot was: ' enjoy the rest of your day now '.

Great ! Is this the latest edict from Sainsbury's on consumer interaction ?

Next time I will ask for help, and see what happens with one item.

Mischievous sod.

We over here Moglet do not yet have the knowledge or the posters to pack our shopping. Take a photo.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 10:56 pm

I went shopping at Waitrose (don't you know) on Sarurday and bought a Yam. (other stuff too)

The yam would not come up on the till - a supervisor was called - much umming and ahhing - eventually they decided to call the yam a courgette (US = zuchinni) which was £1.19 per kilo as opposed to the £1.99 per kilo the yam should have been.

Wish I'd bought four!

prospero wrote: I remember the anthrax scare a while ago. People walking around with face masks, etc. Yet in the same period, how many were killed in traffic accidents?

Did you know that in Tokyo - someone gets knocked down every 10 mimutes?

He's getting pissed off with it!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Tue 26 Jun, 2007 11:51 pm

Don't have the posters, Foxy? Only a matter of time, methinks. I find this "lowest common denominator" society all too depressing.

And I miss Waitrose. But not one millionth as much as I miss real ale (said the woman who has been known to bless herself passing Wadworth's brewery in Devizes...)

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Wed 27 Jun, 2007 2:35 am

Moglet,
I have to ask this question - what is a "moglet" please?

My guess is a small "mog", but I also don't know what a "mog" is. I know what a "moggy" is!

foxyframer · Post by **foxyframer** » Wed 27 Jun, 2007 7:26 am

When at the till in Lidl, (go down-market on the odd occasion), I bought six mangos. 'What are these, one checkout youth says to the next. I think they're grapefruit'

Supervisor was called and knew they were mangos.

So much for staff- training

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Wed 27 Jun, 2007 12:47 pm

Got it in one, Ormond. "Small pussycat." I adore felines. Think I must have been in Ancient Egypt in a former incarnation.

Love giving shop assistants the odd change at the checkout - after they've rung in the nice round €20. Gets 'em every time.

Where do education budgets go?

What gets me most about the nanny state is the erosion of civil liberties. I used to work in the telecoms field, and consequently became familiar with systems being developed for monitoring of mobile and internet communication. Anyone here ever heard of a Lawful Interception Gateway? Or RIP legislation (Regulatory Investigatory Powers)?

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Wed 27 Jun, 2007 11:32 pm

over the summer solstice last weekend some of us took a weekend bike trip, round the new forest, (lovely!) and "did" stonehenge etc.

On the way home on the A35 we pass this huge sign (one of those black light up message things) beside it was a small yellow sign saying "sign inoperative". wtf was that about? You cant make it up!

Fortunately, on our way home, back in Cornwall, we found the antidote to our nanny state woes- we pulled into our usual "end of trip" greasy spoon cafe, whereupon we found all the ashtrays were taken.
I asked "the lady" if she could rustle up an ashtray for us. her reply: "I'll get you one out of the kitchen my luv".

Priceless

Post by **prospero** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 12:46 am

What I wonder sometimes about all this 'Big Brother' stuff is who are the people who actually employed to do the monitoring. Nowadays there must be millions of security cameras in the country. Who's watching them? Eventually the population will be polarised into two groups. Half the people will have the job of watching what the other half is getting up to. Or are we there already?

Orwell was an optimist IMHO.

Moglet.

Interesting bit of info about web/mobile monitoring stuff. Does the software search for certain keywords? Maybe I'll try sending an E-mail with a combination of suitably provocative words and see if I get a visit from the spooks.

Was that a knock at the door? I wonder who that could be at this time of night.........

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 1:53 am

I left mobile comms behind me in 2001, and the systems were then in the development stage for the 3G networks (affectionately known as "vapourware" !).

My understanding is that the aforementioned RIP legislation has been passed in most countries around the world. which basically gives governments the right to tap all electronic communication (what the NSA have allegedly been doing for years) and the gateways will flag up messages with suspect content. Start typing, Prospero! I'm sure you know the sort of stuff!

What happened to court orders?

What worries me is that, in general, people don't seem to know this legislation exists! The reasons for its inception may be noble (counter-terrorism, etc.) but who is to say what our "nannies" will decide is "naughty" in the future? The machines don't sleep, and make it nigh on effortless to monitor whatever they're told to monitor.

BTW, to the best of my knowledge, in France it's illegal to encrypt emails: surely a strong indicator that something's going on behind the scenes in terms of monitoring.

What's more insidious is yer average 3G mobile phone. I noticed on another section of the forum that in the UK you guys are being pushed towards trackers for your cars. (The strains of "Tax Man" are drifting through my noggin...) Well, your mobile phone will be doing the same sort of thing, in terms of your physical location.

2G Mobile networks could track your location relative to a given radio base station - which could be quite a distance. But 3G phones will be (if they aren't already) much more location sensitive. When the networks are fully rolled out, they will be capable of pinpointing your position to within 15 metres in larger population centres.

This "location-aware" capability is to be used for services that help one to find stuff in a particular area (e.g. if you're touring and want to find local vistor attractions or restaurants). We already have electronic tagging of offenders. Your mobile will do the same thing, in effect. What concerns me is the potential for abuse the technology represents. Who's gonna watch the watchers???

Sorry guys, but I've got a real bee in my bonnet about this stuff. I won't use supermarket loyalty cards on principal. It's none of Mr Tesco's business what brand of loo paper I use. There's a thought: combine a mobile with tazer (spelling?). Maybe it'll zap me if I don't pack my groceries properly...

And remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!!

<--- Like the disguise?

Post by **John** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 6:43 am

We recently had to put up a no smoking sign.

The fact that nobody has ever smoked in our shop is of no consequence . The sign is everything, it MUST be displayed. And there are harsh penalties for those who do not conform.

We have even framed one of these signs for a church. Well, you know how it is. Without the sign, the priest might forget and light up in mid sermon.

...

SORRY, I HAD TO EDIT MY POST AS I HAVE BECOME INCANDESANT WITH RAGE AND STARTED TO BABBLE.

I'm off to lie down in a darkened room.

lynnbmack · Post by **lynnbmack** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 8:34 am

There was a lady in the north of scotland who recently tried to sue the council because she had taken a cliff top walk and fallen!! Can you imagine the whole coast of Britain with fences, signs, lawyers posters when the coastline is made a right of way! No-one wants to be responsible for their own behaviour any more. Even with the recent floods - everyone is looking for someone to blame - no protection against water etc - maybe someone on a higher plane is trying to tell us something!!?? Maybe the Aliens are conducting experiments on us!!!! Time for me to leave - the school holidays are upon us and sanity has departed!

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 12:00 pm

Ain't that the truth, Lynn. My premises is on the first floor, and I have 2 CCTV cameras on the stairs - more for protection against false litigation than theft.

Can't really blame people, in a way. The nanny state mentality means that people are treated as though they're irresponsible children, so if they start acting that way who is ultimately stimulating such behaviour?

With politicians having "sleaze" allegations levelled against them time after time, their "holier than thou" attitude just galls me.

And the inconsistency...! "Eggs are bad", they say with unerring certainty, then a few years later, "Eggs are OK!" Make yer minds up, please!

To the best of my knowledge, the Pope only makes Ex Cathedra announcements on matters of Catholic doctrine that have been batted about by Vatican scholars for decades to ensure concensus.

I'm waiting for the day when they 'fess up to their baser motives and tell us that the only time that we are really safe is when we're all sitting in cube farms, like good little citizens, spending all our waking hours making money for the Gordon Geckos of the world.

Just nobody start me on "germ fear".....

Martin Harrold · Post by **Martin Harrold** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 10:22 pm

John - I agree with you about the sign. We've had one for years, voluntarily. But, surely sign makers have missed a trick, for they could be huge, to include things like, no murdering, no dope, no tax evasion, no putting paper in the glass re-cycling bin - and 9000 more things you must not do.
But if anyone does smoke, who is going to report him or put a prosecution in hand ? Does the beat bobby still exist ? Will we see Panda cars rushing around with flashing blue lights, attending to reports of smokers in buildings ?
And, yes, I could get angry too.

Post by **prospero** » Thu 28 Jun, 2007 11:00 pm

The Framers Forum

Nanny state

Nanny state

No smoking signs