If it looks too good to be true ..

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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Jamesnkr » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:30 am

Don't worry. You will also have to sell them one of these:

http://www.ckb.uk.com/time-tutelary-aut ... Asxo8P8HAQ
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Roboframer » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:50 pm

Fast forward to Early Jan, looking in a dead posh jeweller's window at Rolex watches (in Hamburg) - jokingly said to wife "want that one" and she ended up buying it for me, an oyster perpetual complete with "red grape" dial - the justification was that we always, for birthdays, Christmas, anniversaries .... always say we'll treat ourselves "one day soon when we're in town" but it never happens, so this was like 15 years worth in one go! We used my credit card.

It gains about 4 seconds a day!

I will get it adjusted but look at the BS from here regarding Rolex accuracy http://blog.watchchest.com/why-your-rol ... rms-43015/

From that link ........................ "According to Glenn Rutledge, Watch Chest’s AWCI CW21 watchmaker, Rolex claims your watch should keep proper time, give or a take a minute per month"

No shit?

I don't think Rolex would shout about that - I would not have bought one if they did - something I bought from banggood for £11 is better than that and so is my trusty Seiko Kinetic!

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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby IFGL » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:09 am

My car clock gains 1 second per day, that anoyes me, 11 would drive me up the walk, I think the problem is that we now have devices that update time via the tinterweb, they are always right, we have unrealistic expectations.
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Roboframer » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:19 am

The most expensive watch I've ever bought keeps worse time than any other watch I have had - I don't think it unrealistic to expect it to be at least as accurate. I'm sure they'll sort it though, local dealer under guarantee that is - otherwise I'll be looking at a total refund and we'll have another cruise out of it!
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby IFGL » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:15 am

Sorry John, I didn't mean that in the way it sounded, I agree with you, 11 seconds per day is outrageous, I was talking about me with the 1 second a day with my car, it gains 3 minutes every six months when I change the clocks for summer/winter time, it should not annoy me but it does.
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby pramsay13 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:22 am

I have a wind-up clock in the house, and I need to wind it every day or at least every second day. It loses almost a minute each day and I have to use my mobile phone to reset it!
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby IFGL » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:57 am

Lol, old school.
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Jamesnkr » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:18 am

Roboframer wrote:The most expensive watch I've ever bought keeps worse time than any other watch I have had - I don't think it unrealistic to expect it to be at least as accurate.


It is accurate though. You can't expect a sensitive mechanical device with an enormous number of moving parts, that sits on your wrist and is shaken about all day, to be able to compete with something that is entirely driven off a quartz crystal that vibrates at a constant 32,768 Hz. Or, worse, something that is synched through the internet like your mobile phone.

It's like the difference between a factory-finished moulding and a hand-finished moulding. There will be inconsistencies from inch to inch. Lyrical imperfections. That is a part of the joy of it. Take pleasure in interacting with the mechanical marvel that is your watch as you reset it once a week.

How often do you need to be accurate to the nearest second? Relax a bit. It doesn't really matter!
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Roboframer » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:33 am

Sorry, but it's a watch and its primary function is to keep the time, if I wanted something that looked nice I'd get my ears pierced (I think Boots do that while you wait)

I've had other automatics that were accurate, costing over ten times less than this one. The gain in time is consistent, it just needs adjusting to be consistently accurate, to a an acceptable degree, which I don't think 4 or 5 seconds a day IS!
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Jamesnkr » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:21 pm

Roboframer wrote:I've had other automatics that were accurate, costing over ten times less than this one.


Four whole seconds a day. Two minutes a month! What do you do in life that makes it so important to be so accurate? You will anyway find that four seconds is well within spec.

From TAG Heuer, but as it's a COSC standard you will find that Rolex follow suit:

What is a Chronometer?
A Chronometer is a certified, high-precision timepiece that meets the stringent standards of the C.O.S.C. (Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres / Swiss Office for Chronometric Controls). Each movement is tested for 15 days, in 5 positions and at 3 temperatures while operating under very demanding conditions. To earn the title of Chronometer, a mechanical movement, either automatic or manual, must meet the 7 criteria defined by ISO 3159 standard and applied by the C.O.S.C. Whatever the external conditions, it must maintain an accuracy of between -4/+6 seconds per day.


I suggest you get used to the idea and enjoy the watch rather than having a go at your jeweller.
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Roboframer » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:45 pm

One tenth of a second a day is within the minus four to plus six - I won't be having a go at any jeweller - I bought it in Hamburg and I can't nip it back there - I'm assuming any dealer can adjust it under the guarantee - although it seems I am within the guarantee!

If they won't I'll see about a refund on the grounds stated above - like an eleven quid automatic from friggin' banggood is more accurate!

I wonder how many they'd sell if they put all that in big red letters in their windows - words to the effect of "Buy your Rolex here and don't come whinging to us if it gains a minute every 10 days either"

I simply would not have bought it had I read the plus/minus allowance first, or if the jeweller had pointed it out to me - unless they said any problems we can adjust it ... which I'm sure they can, we'll see.

I don't see how a movement can be called 'precision' if it's not precise.
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Not your average framer » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:27 pm

How many people are going to find it a problem if their watch is one minute out ten days after setting it to the correct time? That's six seconds in 24 hours. Considering that there are 86,400 seconds in 24 hours, I think that's not bad!

You can get watches with an absolute accuracy of one hundreth of one second at any time, but that's a completely different level of technology and not everybody will be willing to pay the appropriate price tag that goes with that sort of technology.
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Roboframer » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:54 pm

Not your average framer wrote:How many people are going to find it a problem if their watch is one minute out ten days after setting it to the correct time?


Many! Like those who actually go to the trouble of finding out the absolute anally correct time! I'd never done that until I bought this watch and after comparing am a bit bemused that out of all the watches I have ever purchased, the most expensive one is the absolute worst keeper of time!

It would be ten minutes out after 100 days and over half an hour out after 12 months - or actually will be unless I get it sorted. To me, for a TENTH of what I paid, that is unacceptable.

Not your average framer wrote:You can get watches with an absolute accuracy of one hundreth of one second at any time, but that's a completely different level of technology and not everybody will be willing to pay the appropriate price tag that goes with that sort of technology


No mechanical watch can meet that and the electronic ones that do can be bought very cheaply, they're just linked to some atomic clock somewhere. If I really NEEDED to know the time, to the second, I could just look at my phone, or use it to go to one of many websites that show the exact time. I just expect something with a precision movement that cost a packet, to be accurate enough to not have to adjust very often, annually, possibly bi-annually, would be acceptable.



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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Not your average framer » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:50 pm

There's always going to be some degree of tolerance issues in any watch which is not derectly linked to the radio signals from an atomic clock. I don't know how accurate the clock on a mobile phone is supposed to be, but the speed of data transmission across the internet can vary according to the level of internet usage at any particular time and how long the route from the originating computer to the receiving computer might be.

The frequency accuracy of the quartz crystal in your watch is also manufactured to within a certain tolerance as well, so some will be better, or worse than others. The accuracy specified by watch manufacturers is probably what they think is what they think is reasonable after checking a certain number of valid production unit and some sort of confidence figure will be applied to that specification.

In reality, anything not linked to a more accurate external reference will have some sort of measure of uncertainty creeping in somewhere. It's just one of the limitations of being part of the real world. I'm guessing that there are probably differences in accuracy specification between different manufacturers within similarly priced products as well and the reason for these differences are not always clearly understood by the manufacturers concerned, even though their design staff have done the sums and analyzed the results with uttermost care.
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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby Roboframer » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:08 am

Not your average framer wrote:The frequency accuracy of the quartz crystal in your watch is also manufactured to within a certain tolerance as well, so some will be better, or worse than others


There is no quartz crystal, it's mechanical, no battery and I don't expect it to be as accurate as a quartz watch over long periods of time, just far more accurate than it is at present. If an approved dealer was more handy I'd have sorted it by now. Looks great, but it doesn't actually have to even tick to do that!





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Re: If it looks too good to be true ..

Postby IFGL » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:29 am

Where did you get that old bit of tree root you have the watch displayed on, the narly stubs on the right hand side almost look like fingers, wonderful!

In all seriousness, I too would be wound right up with how for out it is, within tolerance or not.
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