...and you can quote me

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...and you can quote me

Postby John » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:08 pm

I understand how useful a quote can often be. However I feel that excessive and unnecessary quoting on a forum marks its members as childish and immature. Dont believe it? - Have a look at any forum frequented by adolescents.

In the matter of quotes, I offer these guidelines: -
  • Avoid quoting posts in full
  • Quotes should comprise no more than 10% of the content of your own post
  • Never, ever, quote the immediately previous post in full or in part (maybe even the previous 3 posts?) your readers will understand your words without you also echoing what they have so recently read.
  • Before hitting the quote button, ask yourself "does my reader really need to reread this?"
If course the odd exception to the above is acceptable, and may even be desirable on occasion.

Remember, an unnecessary quote adds absolutely nothing to the discussion in the way of meaning or context. And since it is totally ignored by all of your readers anyway, what purpose does it serve?

I would like to encourage forum users to follow the above guidelines. But for those members who like to pepper their posts with unnecessary quotes, a demonstration can be arranged that I hope will show how superfluous the quote button really is.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby easypopsgcf » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:26 pm

I guess you should remove the 'quote' function then...............as its obviously not needed.................or is it that its written into every forum software available?,wonder why that is?........maybe its a popular function?....................I understand you dont like it.................I dont like peas so i dont eat them :D
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Roboframer » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:15 pm

The guy owns the forum, what's wrong with respecting his wishes? We're all guests and should be grateful.

Of course it's a popular function - it's no different to normal conversation where someone may bang on for ages and then come your turn you say "Going back to the bit you said about ......" and he didn't say he didn't like it, he just doesn't like unnecessary use of it, that's all.

A reference to part of a post can be useful and is sometimes necessary - all anyone has to do is make sure they are either or both.

Sometimes maybe when someone clicks the quote button they can't be arsed to edit out the bits they don't want, so here's a tip - hit 'post reply' scroll down to the post you want to quote from, highlight the part you want to quote and then hit 'quote' in that post. :wink:
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby easypopsgcf » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:42 pm

I know perfectly well how to use the quote function correctly, and have never abused it. I have always tried to be helpful when answering posts and find that using the quote allows me to clearly show what I'm referring to. I fully understand that this is Johns forum, and have no axe to grind. But he must be aware that people are used to using forums. I use another couple very regularly and have never fallen foul of admin for simply using the available functions? Why start a forum then dictate how it should be used? Then when it's not going your way, create guidelines with veiled threats?
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Roboframer » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:54 pm

I'm not sure, but how would you like to be force fed peas?
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby easypopsgcf » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:05 pm

Look, I know I'm not anyone's favourite person here, I just feel like there is a form of bullying going on and I'm afraid I'm the kind of person who'll speak up, and it's obvious I'm in the minority here.
You can make the reference about force feeding me peas etc, but you wouldn't be able to as I wouldn't grow them on MY farm :)
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Not your average framer » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:53 pm

Hi Easypopsgcf,

I don't think you understand why John makes this request concerning quotes. If you look at the extensive amount of earlier posts and threads which are still accessible for all to see, perhaps you will understand just how massive a storage capacity is required to do this.

This level of storage capacity on a forum server service costs a significant amount of expenditure just so that everything is there to be accessed at any time. You and I don't have to find that money, John does that and his request is about the only way that you can help with this issue. So if you can help with this, it would be be helpful.

Also, as I would guess that you are already aware, this forum has a very helpful search facility. However this search facility becomes more difficult when the search term you are searching for is quoted a lot of posts on the same thread. The result is that you could spend far too long searching for the post,or thread you are looking for and give without finding what you were looking for. This is because the search facility shows every instance of the search words, including those in quotes.

Please consider these implications when deciding if a quote is required, or if you can limit the size of the portion you are quoting. I think that this makes good sense, don't you?
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Roboframer » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:13 pm

I don't think bandwidth is the issue - anyway, from what I've read here and there text takes up diddly-spit; photos take up more? I can't think of a situation where I'd need to re-post a photo in a quote though.

Incoming quotes ....

Roboframer wrote:how would you like to be force fed peas?


easypopsgcf wrote:You can make the reference about force feeding me peas etc, but you wouldn't be able to as I wouldn't grow them on MY farm


Not a reference, just a simple question and the answer is just as simple - you wouldn't.

Can't resist quoting this tho' - sorry!
Not your average framer wrote:if you can help with this, it would be be helpful
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Not your average framer » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:30 pm

Hi John,

It's not bandwidth, but it's webspace I'm talking about. I've no idea how many gigs we are talking about, but it's quite a lot.

Personally, I think that the search implications are the real PITA implications. How many pages of search results do we have to go through, when looking for something particular?
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Roboframer » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:59 pm

Ok - seeing as this is 'forum issues' and seeing as you mention searches ....

SEARCHES ARE A PAIN IN THE ARSE AND FORGET THE QUOTES!!!

Was that loud enough? - I can do it in larger red bold.

General framing comes under too many headings and not everyone puts topics in the ideal one anyway - a conservation issue for example could be in outgassing, help or general discussion - those 3 forums would be better merged in to one IMHO - would that save some mega giggle bites? It would save me some headaches I can tell you.

When searching (for framing stuff) I never select a forum - waste of time, just the keyword(s) and maybe the username too.

While I'm on a roll the 15 minute edit time gets on my tits at least as much as the misuse of quotes gets on anyone else's. If you had to make a new post to add (whatever) something, would that take more mega giggle bites than an addition to an existing post? Reckon it must, because it comes with all the avatar, signature, etc etc stuff too.

Maybe it can't be lengthened because the server won't allow it, just like the quote facility maybe cannot be altered to make the guidelines above compulsory?

So anyway, just saying that I do my best to use the quote facility or any other facility to its best whilst also putting up with stuff that does my head in.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby easypopsgcf » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:26 am

Robofarmer- Ok it was a simple question and yes you are correct i wouldn't like it.
You asked it while comparing it to the quotes forced upon John, which seems strange your aiming it at me, simply because i dont agree with whats being said...............i dont overuse the quote function..............i dont like being told what to do, when there is no valid reason for not doing it.............not that i do do it anyway.


If its true there is a bandwidth/webspace reason then take the quote button away.


Not your average framer- I'm pretty certain i'm not the worst quoter on this forum, just because i dont agree with something and say so , doesn't mean that i am the one overusing/abusing the quote function

John- I understand it costs you to keep this forum running, some of the other forums i use work on a donation/subscriber basis..........these people get extra privileges. ie allowed to advertise in their sig , allowed to sell items......worth a thought maybe?
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Tim » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:43 am

This thread was probably aimed at me, since I inadvertently recently quoted two lines of text instead of one in a moment of weakness. John has provided insight into his deep hatred of 'quoters' before, so this time when he pulled me up on it I tried to make a pithy point, but it obviously failed to hit home. I too have an avid dislike relating to forum use - of people who insist on pulling others up in public, instead of having a quiet word via another function of the forum software, the 'private message'.

I'll refrain from quoting in future........and would like to apologise for upsetting our host's delicate sensibilities this last time.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Roboframer » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:56 am

It was 3 lines but that wasn't the issue, the issue was that it was the whole post quoted directly below it which just isn't necessary.

I wouldn't do it and although others doing it doesn't bother me one bit - were I one of them I'd just bear John's wishes in mind in the future - it's no big deal. People get sooooooooooo sensitive.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Jonny2morsos » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:02 am

If there is an issue with using storage space and you will note I have not inserted a quote from a previous part of this thread at this point then would it not make sense to re-introduce the limit on image size.

I notice some images are coming over with 3-4Mb which is unnecessary especially as the display on my computer will only allow 1280 x 1024 pixels. Also it takes a long time to load up these big image files.

I belong to a camera club and we can enter digital competitions by submitting images at 1024 x 768 pixels.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Not your average framer » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:34 am

easypopsgcf wrote:I'm pretty certain i'm not the worst quoter on this forum


I wasn't having a go. Just trying to illustrate some of the issues.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Graysalchemy » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:28 pm

Good job I am on holiday this seems very lively. Quotes are a very useful tool but I think easypops point about a lot of using used to using them on other forums is valid.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Roboframer » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:58 pm

But it's still no big deal to bear others' pet hates in mind when posting whether they are administrators, moderators or just regular members - if you're a newbie or an infrequent poster you may not be aware but people taking issue here are neither and it's not like there's a great big list of pet hates to remember.

I hate the term 'conservation police' BTW & FWIW - oh and abbreviations! LOL.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Graysalchemy » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:35 pm

Conservation police are no friends of mine neither. But I must say I try to use quotes appropriately and only quote the relevant bit of a post to make an effective point. With regards to quotes taking up space surely it is no different to a long post or one with lots of pictures but these don't seem to come in for criticism.

I do appreciated that John is responsible for getting funding in through advertising etc and a fantastic job he does, but surely a popular site which doesn't put members off for what ever reason will surely will go up the rankings and attract better rates of advertising. A site which stops being harmonious will only damage this as members will not contribute if they don't feel comfortable, and that will be detrimental to all of us who enjoy using this site.
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Re: ...and you can quote me

Postby Roboframer » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:49 pm

John wrote:I feel that excessive and unnecessary quoting on a forum marks its members as childish and immature. Dont believe it? - Have a look at any forum frequented by adolescents.


Grown-ups too!

This is pretty normal on TFG. http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.ph ... -promotion
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