The work of the devil.

Conservation Issues

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby Not your average framer » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:15 am

I often pick up some very useful old pictures in local auction sales and for the most part I find that the artworks are usually in reasonably good condition. Some even have more than one picture in the same frame.

Quite often I only bought a batch of framed pictures, so that I can cut up a sheet of mirror glass and make a quick profit for not a lot of effort.

I often get to thinking about cheaply reframing the better pictures in a more modern style and selling them to other businesses, particularly a couple of interior designers who are often up for the right picture at the right price.

There's still good potential in many of these old pictures. I've no idea why so many seem to be so well presrved, when so much of the stuff framed in more recent times has suffered more severely.
Mark Lacey

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Re: The work of the devil.

Postby JohnMcafee » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:05 am

Roboframer, you seem to be hell bent on creating a division that simply is not there as far as I can see.

Most of the framers that I know are aware of conservation issues and will use conservation methods when necessary. No need to shout about it or make a big fuss, it is not as big a deal as you seem to think.
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Re: The work of the devil.

Postby An Old Master » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:12 am

Most materials used today that come into contact with artwork are unlikely to cause any damage in their standard state, so this rending of garments and gnashing of teeth is just that for its own sake. I agree with John, it really is no big deal.
An Old Master
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby stcstc » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:25 am

my opinion

i dont think its materials generally that are the issue. more how people use them

last week had some pieces in for scanning to make editions of. they had been mounted by a framer down the road, quite well respected

the prints had been stuck by hand to foamcore, badly cut mounts with huge overcuts etc(using a cmc i might add) and the mounts had been stuck over the top permenantly

the pieces were from a beginner so maybe it was a budget thing, but when i explained to the artist that the mounts count not be removed very easily, i asked if she had requested this or asked for a cheap job. nope and she was horrified to find that 6 pieces of here work were not ruined comp[letley but in bad shape because of the framer
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Re: The work of the devil.

Postby An Old Master » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:42 am

Very difficult to establish what actually was said between beginnner and respected framer down the road, but for our enlightenment it would be good to know what is considered permanent when referring to how the mounts were stuck down - my interpretation being something that is completely irreversible. One important question, is the well respected framer down the road in posession of any formal qualifications, such as GCF or CPF? If so, I would be interested in knowing, via PM of course, who they are, so that this allegation could be investigated.
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Re: The work of the devil.

Postby stcstc » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:46 am

well not the point of the post not to drop another framer in it

couldnt tell you if he has qualifications, never been interested in them, feel they are very very outdated as i have said before
stcstc
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby Graysalchemy » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:53 am

I have had this argument many a time on here about whether a GCF should have to frame to the GCF levels of framing.

I personally think if you are putting your GCF qualification above your door and on the back of the frame then you should, as you are effectively trading on the back of the good name of the qualifications and the standards which it upholds ( or should).

I have reframed on many occasions original watercolours from one of my most respected artists which have been previously framed by a GCF using non conservation mount board ( you could possibly excuse that if they were framed 10-15 yrs ago) and masking tape to hold the pictures in.

No excuse, anyone who has qualified as a GCF and has an appreciation of art should know better.
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Re: The work of the devil.

Postby An Old Master » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:02 pm

'Dropping another framer in it' has already been the net result. Geograghically it is not difficult to narrow down who the well respected framer down the road. actually is. Perhaps not mentioning that snippet of information would have maybe been more tactful. However, the main thrust of my question was to ascertain what you consider to be permanently stuck down in reference to the six mounts, particularly because you later said to your customer that the mounts would be 'very difficult' to remove. Was removal necassary?
An Old Master
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby stcstc » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:06 pm

they hand been run through a laminator onto cold press adhesive board

so to all practical term yes couldnt realistically be removed

they needed to be removed as the mounts were bad. ie damaged etc

i am sure sending them to some very qualified and experienced conservator could get them off but for a beginner is that very practical?

as for the down the road, well firstly down the road has no specific reference to distance, could be 1 mile could be 20 miles

and if you look at how many framers there are within a 20 mile radius of my shop you wont say its easy to locate!

and the point of my example was to show its generally not the materials that do the damage, its the framer
stcstc
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby prospero » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Steve makes a good point. Whatever super-dooper conservation materials you use count for very little if you slap tape all over the issue.

Last year I had a very nice print from the 1930s. The mount was rag with washlines. Good as the day it was cut. Unfortunately, it was stuck down to the print with lashings of hide glue. The print was also stuck down to a manky board, which had bowed. Now if I could have dismantled the thing I could have flattened everything and reused the original mount. As it was I had to destroy it to put a new one on.
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Re: The work of the devil.

Postby An Old Master » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:16 pm

Grays, I agree with you almost completely. However, this a claim that I have heard on occasions in the past, but, when pressed, the claimant has, almost without exception, refused to reveal who the allegedly offending GCF was. This of course completely defeats what I consider to be the ethos of the GCF qualification. It does, however, not necassarily mean that a GCF holder has to adhere to the highest levels of conservation practise in all circumstances, custommer budgetary requirements have an effect as well. The point is, that if a GCFs work is considered to be substandard, then they should challenged on that, otherwise the qualification has no teeth.
An Old Master
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby An Old Master » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:22 pm

I agree about bad pracrise as you describe it, of course I do, but my original point was meant to illustrate that most everyday materials that would normally come into contact with artwork will do little harm. Bad practise is a completely different discussion, which, in reality, is always ongoing on the forum.
An Old Master
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby An Old Master » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:44 pm

Running through a laminator I agree is unnacceptable.
I don't have a CMC, so forgive my ignorance, but isn't it very difficult to get overcuts on a CMC?
How did you eventually get the mounts off then?
Finally, and this is intended to be light hearted, 'Down the road' - as in London's just 'down the road' from me ?
An Old Master
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby stcstc » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:46 pm

well its easy if you are either not paying attention or dont know what your doing

never got the mounts off, i dont have the skills or expertise to even attempt it
stcstc
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby Graysalchemy » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:49 pm

An Old master wrote

The point is, that if a GCFs work is considered to be substandard, then they should challenged on that, otherwise the qualification has no teeth.

That Old Master has been my argument about the GCF, but I have been told (by guild representatives on here) that it is not a professional qualification like that of a chartered accountant (who can be held to account) but merely a qualification like an A level which cannot be taken off them and thus no real recrimination if someone doesn't adhere to it.
Graysalchemy
 

Re: The work of the devil.

Postby An Old Master » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:17 pm

That doesn't prevent an investigation into alegations of work that doesn't meet GCF stamdards when there is proof of a requirement or agreement to do so. But there again, perhaps thread drift is taking too tight a hold, and this should be the subject of a separate discussion, although it sounds as though that has already ocurred.
An Old Master
 

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