Thoughts on UV glass

Conservation Issues

Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Roboframer » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:49 pm

I've asked 'experts' this question many times .....

You've got two identical pieces of artwork, they are both mounted and framed in the exact same way and are both exposed to identical conditions, be they ideal, good or bad; how long would it take for noticeable fading to happen in each case .... sod it, just in the 'ideal' situation ????

How difficult a question, to an expert, is that?

Trouble is I can't find an impartial expert! All the experts I've ever found are in the trade, either affiliated to a single brand or affiliated to/working for, a company selling more than one brand.

Anyone know any real proper noduff impartial experts?
Back behind the velvet rope, Ladies.

.
User avatar
Roboframer
 
Posts: 10602
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: Angmering W.Sussex
Organisation: Angmering Framing & Stitches
Interests: Cooking, drawing.

Gunnar Computerised Mountcutters

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby IFGL » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:04 pm

http://www.drb-mattech.co.uk/index.html it would be nice to find out.
IFGL
 
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:27 pm
Location: Sheffield
Location: Sheffield UK
Organisation: Inframe Gallery Ltd
Interests: Films ,music and art, my wife and kids are pretty cool too.

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Jamesnkr » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:30 pm

UV glass doesn't stop fading. Only keeping a picture in the dark does.
Jamesnkr
 
Posts: 1449
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:25 am
Location: London, UK
Organisation: London UK
Interests: framing

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Roboframer » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:08 pm

No-one claims it stops it, just helps.

Never heard of dark fading then?
Back behind the velvet rope, Ladies.

.
User avatar
Roboframer
 
Posts: 10602
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: Angmering W.Sussex
Organisation: Angmering Framing & Stitches
Interests: Cooking, drawing.

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby JohnMcafee » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:54 pm

This is the current state of my on-going UV glass experiment. It shows the result of exposure to four and a half years in our north east facing shop window.

Left panel - no glass
Centre panel - normal 2mm float
Right panel - Tru Vue Conservation Clear

For the first year or so the experiment was photographed monthly.
Attachments
UVExperiment.jpg
UVExperiment.jpg (37.01 KiB) Viewed 12902 times
"A little learning is a dangerous thing"

(Also known as John, the current forum administrator)
User avatar
JohnMcafee
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:58 am
Location: Belfast
Organisation: Scenes
Interests: Picture Framing
Putting the world to rights

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby featurepiece » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:10 pm

Wow!! Great experiment John :clap: :clap:

Interesting stuff :D
User avatar
featurepiece
 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:01 am
Location: Tyrone, N.Ireland
Organisation: Featurepiece Frames
Interests: Movies, always trying to get things better, Wasting money on things I don't need, reading stuff on here, eating sandwiches & being thankful for the small things

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby IFGL » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:36 pm

Hi John

we have conducted similar experiments and noticed a clear difference after only 6 weeks in a south facing window, knowing what I know now, I want to restart the test with the addition of a alpha mat under mount and alpha mat under mount with uv glass, we stock all types of uv glass so ganna try them all.
IFGL
 
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:27 pm
Location: Sheffield
Location: Sheffield UK
Organisation: Inframe Gallery Ltd
Interests: Films ,music and art, my wife and kids are pretty cool too.

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby JohnMcafee » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:59 pm

It would be very interesting to see results using the various glass/acrylic options.

Also, I'd like to experiment some time with the possibility of further accelerating the effect using a strobe light fired at point-blank range.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing"

(Also known as John, the current forum administrator)
User avatar
JohnMcafee
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:58 am
Location: Belfast
Organisation: Scenes
Interests: Picture Framing
Putting the world to rights

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Roboframer » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:15 pm

It would also be interesting to see the same thing, with the same glass types, exposed to better conditions like.....

Opposite an unprotected window (but set back from it by 3 metres or so)
On both walls at right angles to the same window
On a wall on the same side as the window

Then same again but this time the window has nets that are permanently drawn and curtains or blinds that are drawn from 1800-0900 and a couple of lamps with shades, switched on from 1800-2300.

Then up a windowless passage from both of those windows

Then ........ ??

The list of hanging situations is endless and once the conclusions are drawn on that particular piece of art there's another endless list of types of support and medium!
Then we can start on temperature and atmosphere.

If something is hung somewhere silly, it will fade, UV glass or not, good quality support and medium or not. If it's hung somewhere sensible, it won't - well, not for a loooong time, UV glass or not, etc etc - that's been my experience anyway because what I described above is the situation in my home and many others'!

Ask me which pictures have shown least or no signs of fading!
Back behind the velvet rope, Ladies.

.
User avatar
Roboframer
 
Posts: 10602
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: Angmering W.Sussex
Organisation: Angmering Framing & Stitches
Interests: Cooking, drawing.

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Not your average framer » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:05 pm

I assume that the test was done with red mountboard. Therefore I think it would be interesting to have a comparison between standard cream core, white core, conservation and museum mountboard types to see if any perform better than others.

Of course, the other test would be to try this with a fine art print, a colour photo, a water colour, and an oil painting to see how U.V. glass compares with standard glass protecting different art media types. I don't know what it would tell us, but I think that the results would be quite informative.

BTW, was this experiment conducted in the shop window, which is part of your shop front, where customers can see it?
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
 
Posts: 7863
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Glorious Devon
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Roboframer » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:25 pm

Not your average framer wrote:the other test would be to try this with a fine art print, a colour photo, a water colour, and an oil painting


Under each of those there must be scores if not hundreds of combinations of support and medium types. I have a limited edition print facing a window that is fine; facing the same window but twice as far back is an original watercolour that is not!
Back behind the velvet rope, Ladies.

.
User avatar
Roboframer
 
Posts: 10602
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: Angmering W.Sussex
Organisation: Angmering Framing & Stitches
Interests: Cooking, drawing.

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby JohnMcafee » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:27 pm

Yes the experiment has been in the window the entire time.

A lady once picked it up and asked "how much " :)
"A little learning is a dangerous thing"

(Also known as John, the current forum administrator)
User avatar
JohnMcafee
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:58 am
Location: Belfast
Organisation: Scenes
Interests: Picture Framing
Putting the world to rights

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby JohnMcafee » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:21 pm

The experiment only ever had one (very limited) purpose for me. To determine if so called uv glass really had any significant effect.

It clearly has.

I thought that other framers might find the experiment of some interest.

What is all the fuss about?
"A little learning is a dangerous thing"

(Also known as John, the current forum administrator)
User avatar
JohnMcafee
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:58 am
Location: Belfast
Organisation: Scenes
Interests: Picture Framing
Putting the world to rights

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Roboframer » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:45 pm

I'm just wondering if the same test in good to ideal conditions would prove you don't need no stinkin' UV glass and that's why it hasn't been done!

Or maybe, in the case of 'good' conditions 92% (reflective) versus 98% (absorptive) would show no difference.

etc - but what we definitely know is that bad conditions fade stuff whatever.
Back behind the velvet rope, Ladies.

.
User avatar
Roboframer
 
Posts: 10602
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: Angmering W.Sussex
Organisation: Angmering Framing & Stitches
Interests: Cooking, drawing.

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby JohnMcafee » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:51 am

I use the experiment as a deal clincher, it lets customers see with their own eyes how uv glass slows the fading process, without resorting to explanations or getting into science of it.

In a similar vein, and for my own enlightenment, maybe it is time to think about some sort of practical experiment with mountboard. Who knows, maybe this zeolite thing will turn out to be not entirely smoke and mirrors after all...
"A little learning is a dangerous thing"

(Also known as John, the current forum administrator)
User avatar
JohnMcafee
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:58 am
Location: Belfast
Organisation: Scenes
Interests: Picture Framing
Putting the world to rights

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Roboframer » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:33 pm

Artcare has a great range of colour and finish with more colours in oversized and extra thick than most in UK if not all. The basic specification without the zeolites beats that of many conservation boards and the price is competitive.

The highest % blocking UV glass (single layer) shifts colour and has a ripple, small price to pay if you need it I suppose, but do you?
Back behind the velvet rope, Ladies.

.
User avatar
Roboframer
 
Posts: 10602
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: Angmering W.Sussex
Organisation: Angmering Framing & Stitches
Interests: Cooking, drawing.

Re: Thoughts on UV glass

Postby Not your average framer » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:31 pm

I don't know if anyone else has realised it, but if we can agree upon a standardised experiment to be conducted by many members of this forum, we have the chance to produce an unbiased and credible demonstration of the relative merits of different types of glass and mountboards.

This would be of enormous advantage to all framers, in that we would be able to demonstrate real and meaningful levels of performance of different glass and mountboard products on a like for like basis. Hopefully we would be able to gain a practical and more meaningful understanding of what the specified proformance figures actually mean in real life situations.

Each framer participating would be testing a range of products as one experiment where all the conditions would be the same for each item tested and the results obtained by each framer could be cross compared with the results from other framers and any results which do not correlate with the mass of other results can be considered as unreliable.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
 
Posts: 7863
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Glorious Devon
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day


Return to Outgassing




 
Picture Framer's Trade Directory
Picture Framer's Oracle

 
Members Map Header
Members Map
More info
Resources Header
Contact Forum Admin
Directory
How to include an image in your post
Cove Box Designer
Download Designer
General supplies
Glass
Machinery
Mounts/Mountboard
Artists
Conservators
Prints
Software
Tuition
UK Medals
Framers Forum Live!
Support Header
Crimson
White
Green
Violet
Advertise Header
Forum Banner Ads