can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Conservation Issues

can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby stcstc » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:22 pm

something i saw recently

was a series of facemounted acrylic pictures, on the back said these are certified to be done to the highest conservation standards

can that be the case, where a print is stuck to acrylic?
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby GeoSpectrum » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:23 pm

Try reversing the process and see what happens!
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby Roboframer » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:15 pm

If they weren't framed, just face-mounted prints, then maybe they could claim that. The acrylic would be part of the artwork, just like varnish on an oil painting (well, sort of), that's just how it comes and removal from the acrylic would leave it no longer in its original condition, so reversibilty isn't an option, there's nothing to reverse.

We see claims, on limited edition prints etc, of lightfast inks and high quality papers, but they'll still fade and can still be affected by poor quality framing materials and methods, as these would.
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby stcstc » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:12 pm

what i was trying to figure out is if the person is misleading the public

as what conservation standards would cover something like facemounted prints
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby Roboframer » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:24 pm

What conservation standards are there for artists, photographers and printers?
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby stcstc » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:28 pm

yea i not got a clue that why i am asking

it just seems like a convenient word to use for marketing to sound like they are doing better than someone else
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby Jonny2morsos » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:29 pm

Trouble is the general public don't understand the terminology but are taken in by what sounds good.

A bit like labelling a product along the lines of "Findus Beef Lasagne"
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby prospero » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:01 am

If it were done at the behest of the photographer, then the mounted print would be the 'original' condition. As Robo points out, akin to varnishing an oil painting. I matters not in principle if it's done well or badly.
I've seen more than a few badly varnished paintings. But that's not the framers problem. If I framed them to a standard where they don't suffer any more harm due to the framing, then I would consider my job, re. 'conservation', done.
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby Steve N » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:28 pm

Totally agree with both Roboframer and prospero
I have framed some original mounted artwork bought at Harvey Nichols, with the same statement on "to conservation standards" only to find that the artwork was painted on a cornflake packet and that was taped to the mount using gaffer tape :roll: . I stuck the Harvey Nichols label on the back of the framed work, but did not put our label on :lipssealed: , this was when we did framing for a London poster shop.
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby gesso » Mon May 23, 2016 6:47 am

I helped set up an online photo/print / framing company a few years ago. Basically when these companies say this they are always talking about the durability of the image and not nessecarily about the work,
my greatest bugbear was dry mounting on museum board ....after I had stopped laughing at the idea I finally got round that ridiculous notion by convincing them that photos don't look good dry mounted onto museum board as you get the Orange peel effect.
Non of the mounting film manufacturers will give you info on exactly what tests (if any) have been carried out as to the archival quality of their products, so this in itself maybe a pointer as to what process you should or shouldn't use.
I have had many serious discussions with Gallery owners and photographers with the general stance being it has to look good, archival or conservation comes a distant second. The true line on how to conserve a work is NOT to mount it in that way. use the correct mount board and stick it in a box. "but then I won't be able to see it?" My answer is to get a cheap copy and frame that!
There is some truth in the notion that reverse mounting will protect an image but only in the same way
submersing a calf in formaldehyde will prevent it from rotting it might look good but once you have your stuck with it.
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby Graysalchemy » Mon May 23, 2016 7:37 am

But surely getting a cheap copy would be in breach of the Artist's copyright and you wouldn't want to condone that would you>
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby gesso » Mon May 23, 2016 7:55 am

Graysalchemy wrote:But surely getting a cheap copy would be in breach of the Artist's copyright and you wouldn't want to condone that would you>


Of course not. not at all, who would do such a thing!
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby gesso » Mon May 23, 2016 9:07 am

sctsct:
these people who put these stickers on their pieces, havn't got a clue, its like the dumb leading the blind.
like many framers on here in the 30 yrs of framing I've heared and seen it all. From the country's top conservators passing on their advice quickly followed by "I didn't tell you that" one of the top framing companies in the country who frame works by the top artists/photographers using less than the accepted materials and practices when framing very valuable works. (We never see that in their press releases)

The displaying of Artworks usually glossy photographic prints (acrylic reverse isn't possible without this type of surface) poses a new challenge to the art market. Most reputable photographic dealers will not go near them ( galleries not included) or prints mounted on dibond, Ali or foamex (even thought this type of mounting is reversible using the same process of mounting in the first place, this is still very tricky and will result in an amount of residue left on the prints reverse.

I have come to the conclusion that like the term 'Bespoke" (don't get me started) 'conservation' has been subject to the same abuse.
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby prospero » Mon May 23, 2016 10:14 am

Yep. "Conservation" is a moveable feast. It's become a buzz word, much like "Digital" in other industries.
Mr.Dyson was plugging his vacuum cleaner with a digital motor a while back. In what sense it is digital
I have yet to find out. There is no such thing as a digital motor. :?

I had the opportunity to examine a painting I framed back in the '80s. No whitecore mountboard in them
days. Also stuck to the mount with masking tape and no undermount. The paper was touching the hardboard back.
OK. I didn't know no better then. :oops:
But despite all these insults the painting show zero ill effects. So you could say it was framed to 'conservation' standards.
The main thing in conservation is for the artist to use quality materials in the first place. If the art is constructed from carp
then no amount of museum board and wotnot will conserve it.
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby Graysalchemy » Mon May 23, 2016 10:37 am

Its like 'craft' ale don't get me started on that one, even guinnless make craft ale. 'Home Cooked' pub meals thats another it would be against all health and safety and food safety standards if it was cooked in the landlords domestic kitchen. :head: :head:
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby prospero » Mon May 23, 2016 12:57 pm

'Iconic'.
That's another one. A word that has crept into common parlance in fairly recent years.
When I were a lad that word was never heard.
Nowadays everything seems to be ######ing Iconic. :roll:
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby Graysalchemy » Mon May 23, 2016 1:31 pm

Legend I was once described by a customer as a legend


or was that leg end :giggle:
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby prospero » Mon May 23, 2016 5:06 pm

Not an iconic leg end then? :giggle:
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby Roboframer » Mon May 23, 2016 11:05 pm

prospero wrote:The main thing in conservation is for the artist to use quality materials in the first place. If the art is constructed from carp
then no amount of museum board and wotnot will conserve it.


No it's not, the average artist knows diddly about conservation and nor does the average excellent artist, conservation framing has nothing to do with what the artwork was painted on or in.

That's out of our control.

It's about what we do or don't do to it and what materials we use or don't use.

That is within our control.
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Re: can a facemounted acrylic be consevation standard

Postby caro » Tue May 24, 2016 7:02 am

And there are artists making their 'communications' in materials which they know have a limited lifespan, as in acid laden paper, stapled with rusting staples and ink which will fade quickly, intending that the work is ephemeral, and then some wealthy person spends a lot of money buying it, wants to display and preserve it and some crazyframer agrees to conserve it ! Is it a mad world?
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