valiani problems

Share your CMC experiences.
Or seek help and advice

valiani problems

Postby palette » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:39 pm

New to the forum. Located in Chicago. I purchased a valiani cmc 150 with the interchangeble head system over 2 years ago. It does not cut circles cleanly but leaves a bump. Playing with the setting doesn't help. The company says it has made an adjustment on the new version to fix the problem but has not offered a solution for the earlier models. I used a wizard for 8 years at another store with no problem. I now have my own store and went with Valiani because of head innovation as well as other things. But I am not happy with the glitch. The machine was 17,000 dollars. To get a clean circle I have to cut it from behind, but then there is no bevel. Has anyone experienced this problem and had any success fixing it.

Also any mat stylus good pen recommendations anybody willing to share?

And for that matter any corel tutorials out there so I can use this cutter to its advantage. THe wizard had stuff 8 years ago that I cannot do right now on this machince without mastering Corel and even then I don't know if it would work.

Is there a company guide out there with some tips for this machine that I don't know about?

Thanks for the help
palette
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:37 pm
Location: chicago illinois
Organisation: chicago illinois
Interests: framing

EstLite Frame Pricing Software

Re: valiani problems

Postby Merlin » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:41 pm

Hi Palette
This has been moved into the Valiani User Forum - Discussions by Moderator.

Could you let me know what version FMD software you are running please. You will find this under the '?' on the top line. You are correct in that the latest software has fixed the 'stepping' problem as well as incorporating a 'Mat Database' to allow 'fine tuning' in every possible way.

If you are cutting with the Mat Board face down then you will either have to change the cut direction or click on 'Face down' icon on the top icon row. Either of these will give you the bevel that you are looking for.

You will also find information on The Grumble (USA Framing Forum) about the various Pens that have been tried and tested with the new Mat Stylus Pen Head. I use the PILOT Drawing Pen 0.5mm Nib. This uses pigmented ink and lays a smooth line.

wrt Corel. There are a number of tutorials available on the web.
However, CD is such a big and powerful authoring package that many users are totally bewildered by it.
Brian Simard (Valiani North America) is giving a number of Seminars at WCAF in January. I know he is concentrating on Corel Draw.

As a pointer - maybe- I would look at the 'Shape Tool' and the 'Bezier Tool' tutorials first.
Concentrating on the use of the 'nodes' and how to smooth, add, delete and convert to curves.

Save any files as a .PLT and Export into FMD. The world then becomes your oyster - so to speak. Any design that you have seen can then be very quickly made and used with the Valiani CMC.

If you need Brian Simards email address or some supporting PDF's then please PM me.
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1556
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Cornwall
Organisation: Merlin Mounts
Interests: Aviation

Re: valiani problems

Postby palette » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:21 am

Thanks for the quick response and the suggestions.

I am using the 4.6.3 version. It was updated when my mat stylus pen arrived. I was at the Vegas show last year and took Brian Simards class. It was there that I met others that had the same problem who had purchased the first interchangeable model in 07. They said it could not be fixed on our models but was done with extra tubing and hardware on the new models. I am trying to find others who may contact Valiani directly as a group to try to rectify the problem. At the show booth I was told the new software would fix it , but this is not the case.

As for corel , it is overwhelming. There are designs in my house I had done with the wizard 7 years ago that I can't possibly repeat now. They involve arching and spacing that does not exist on the Valiani. Plus it has over 40 flawless circles.

The machine I have is designed to cut from the front, but those circles are unsellable. I have to have no bevel to use a circle design and that seems odd for the amount of money I spent. I believe there is a way for the company to fix it but I have not heard anything and am looking for others with the same frustrations so that we may get something done.

Plus it wouldn't hurt to have a couple of more basic design techniques, (guides, center lines, merge etc) without having to go into corel to do everything.

If I can't fix the problem, to cut circles I will have to outsource or look into another machine and that is troubling.
palette
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:37 pm
Location: chicago illinois
Organisation: chicago illinois
Interests: framing

Re: valiani problems

Postby Merlin » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:52 am

Hi Palette
I am running V4.6.4 and I cut flawless circles and ovals every single time. Both face up and face down.
I also have had no reports from any other UK Valiani users of this 'stepping' problem running this version.

Maybe your CMC needs calibrating.

I have forwarded this thread onto Valiani (Italy) and Valliani (North America).

Like everything that is software driven. The software evolves with user experience and feedback, hence the reason for this User Group. A long 'wish list' has already been sent to Valiani but unfortunately due to coding and testing this will not be accomplished overnight.

Keep us in touch please with your results.
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1556
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Cornwall
Organisation: Merlin Mounts
Interests: Aviation

Re: valiani problems

Postby palette » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:36 pm

Hello again,

To merlin, is there a way I can give you a call at your store to ask you a few questions. I am in Chicago and I am 6 hours behind.

I just got back from the frame show. According to valiani, any interchangeable head system sold before last year has my problems. They have redesigned it with some new tubes in the back that allow for smoother and flawless cirlces. They are looking into correcting the problem on earlier machines but it would involve a techinician coming to my store and adding additional equipment in the back. They have not given me a definitive yes or estimated cost for this.
THe two new improvements at the show were they have redesigned the matstylus head, and the embossing head.
I just received the old mat stylus head about 4 months ago and they have already redesigned it and do not know for sure if the old one can be retrofitted. THe new one makes sure that the lines are always centered regardless of pen stlye.
The new embossing head has 3 types of embossing pins and can not be retrofitted to the old embossing head.
In short I would have to buy a whole new embossing head which are now are 1200 dollars since they have paired up with ITW/AMP or they said I can buy a 90% head and swap the fittings. I already have one 90% head and do not want to purchase another one to get a better embossing tool since mine is only a little older than 2 years.
Since last year all their heads have gone up since they are no longer working by themselves but have paired up with ITW/AMP.
And they still have not addressed any software improvemnets. I told them that there is no reason for me to buy any head until a couple of years down the road because they keep making improvements which result in new heads, better than mine when mine are less than 1/2 a year old. Not a very favorable consumer approach.
The idea that I must go into corel to do the very basic designs still bothers me. I am overwhemled with the software and have not used it since I bought it and have to hire someone to teach me. I went to Brians class last year but one needs alot more to get an understanding.
(running out of room, continued below)
palette
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:37 pm
Location: chicago illinois
Organisation: chicago illinois
Interests: framing

Re: valiani problems

Postby palette » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:51 pm

continued:

When you visit the other companies(wizard/gunnar) they are years ahead. They have the ablility for outside design programs, but their basic package is simple and abundant (merge/spacing/guides/rotating/groups)

I hope enough valiani users are asking for some changes because it would benefit them in the long run. Listening to other booths talking to potential customers it was not a hard sell for them. They told people to go to the valiani booth and ask them about their software shortcummings. That does not bode well for future sales and therefore future money for research.

2 basic things I pointed out is that you can't rotate groups or certaing groups. THey dont pivot on an access but fly off the page. Also certain groupings with their own templates (and I imagine corel) cannot be treated as one. When you select all and use the tool spacing it only spaces one layer splitting the whole desing.

They said they would work on that. I would love the very basics- centering guides, merge, clean rotations . They said these were on a list when I purchased the machine and over two 1/2 years later still not one addition.

I hope some additions come in the near future. I told them their sales would definitely benefit compared to what is out there. It would also benefit people who already have the machine.
(Do they sell a differnt machine in Europe and these problems do not exist?)
palette
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:37 pm
Location: chicago illinois
Organisation: chicago illinois
Interests: framing

Re: valiani problems

Postby Merlin » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:03 pm

Hi Palette

Wow.. a long thread. That will need some looking at to give you your answers.

My store is open from 9 until 4 daily. However, I am away as from this Saturday until the following Wednesday, demonstrating the Valiani CMC at our own Trade show..

My store number is 01326 565670.
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1556
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Cornwall
Organisation: Merlin Mounts
Interests: Aviation

Re: valiani problems

Postby palette » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:20 pm

Again very quick.

Thanks. I will let you get ready for the show and give you a try when you get back. I did not know you demonstrated the machines, so these problems are probably somewhat familiar.
palette
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:37 pm
Location: chicago illinois
Organisation: chicago illinois
Interests: framing

Re: valiani problems

Postby Merlin » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:29 am

I have forwarded your email onto Valiani Italy.
It seems as though you are upset about the Valiani CMC as a whole (the engineering and software aspect). I am not sure a public forum is the way to go about getting answers. Have you tried communicating direct with Valiani Italy first to resolve?

Here follows my attempt to answer your queries.

I just got back from the frame show. According to valiani, any interchangeable head system sold before last year has my problems.
If you cannot get any help or advice within the USA then contact Valiani direct for any technical problems. I am a trainer and demonstrator NOT an engineer. However, my MatPro120 was purchased in November 2008 with Software Version 4.6.3, with careful calibration (by using the 'Offset Default - Ctrl+O' TAB) the ‘stepping’ in Ovals and Circles can be eliminated.

THe two new improvements at the show were they have redesigned the matstylus head, and the embossing head.
I have been testing the redesigned MatStylus head for the past 5 months and have sent a full test report to Valiani on my findings.
I also have the new Purple Embossing head with the 3 different size pins.


Since last year all their heads have gone up since they are no longer working by themselves but have paired up with ITW/AMP.
I am not qualified to comment; neither would I wish to comment on what commercial transactions take place between Valiani Italy and their worldwide distributors.

And they still have not addressed any software improvemnets.
Where did you get your information from?. You have Version 4.6.3. I have Version 4.6.4 so there has been software development/improvement. As I have already stated above, software cannot be developed overnight.
It takes months from concept/feedback to design, coding, testing/debugging before implementation.
A new software package is being worked on.


The idea that I must go into corel to do the very basic designs still bothers me.
That statement puzzles me. Why are you going into Corel to do the very basic designs?
FMD has everything within its own standard library of shapes, corner styles, PLT imports, array handling, text font inputs to complete any type of design you require.
I would say that 90% of users complete very complex designs without even touching Corel Draw.


I am overwhemled with the software and have not used it since I bought it and have to hire someone to teach me.
I said in the post above that Corel Draw is a complex package that can be bewildering to users. That is not Valiani’s fault.

When you visit the other companies(wizard/gunnar) they are years ahead.
Why did you purchase a Valiani then, when you say that other companies are years ahead?
Valiani won the FATG INNOVATION AWARD in 2008 for the interchangeable Heads.
Valiani introduced the MatStylus in early 2009 for use on the modern day affordable CMC.
Wizard has only just unveiled their 9000 range with the Pen head.
As somebody on the Grumble stated recently - Competition is good. It leads to innovation.
However, as in life some lead and some copy.


Listening to other booths talking to potential customers it was not a hard sell for them. They told people to go to the valiani booth and ask them about their software shortcummings.
I am sure that Valiani are thanking these ‘other booths’ for sending people to them. What a good way to get feed back.
Yet really lets get real here, this is just schoolboy tactics of ‘Mine is better than yours’.
As a demonstrator, I attempt to show the FULL potential of the CMC in question; of course this is in discussion with the customer and their own particular requirements.
I will not use underhand sniping tactics that some ‘salespersons’ use about a competitor.


2 basic things I pointed out is that you can't rotate groups or certaing groups.
What training have you had on the FMD software?
We plan for and take 2 full days to install and train a new user.
By the end of their training session they are cutting multi aperture triple mats with cut art and fancy corners.
By using the SHIFT and Left Mouse Click you can group together any aperture. Then going into the toolbox a whole host of choices can be made, from alignment to spacing to rotating to centring one aperture in relation to another aperture.
You can rotate a single aperture or a group of apertures from .01 of a degree to 360 degrees if you so desire. Plus many more options.
A good trainer would have shown you.


When you select all and use the tool spacing it only spaces one layer splitting the whole desing.
You as the user decide what apertures you want in any group.
If you are talking about spacing text, then this is slightly different depending on the format of the text.


I would love the very basics- centering guides, merge, clean rotations .
With the exception of Merge, you have the very basics you stated either on the front page or definitely within the Toolbox. Centring is a two click process. Select the aperture then look down the bottom right on the FMD front page.
You have 5 options.
1. Centre aperture on the Mat.
2. Centre aperture with equal left/right/top borders.
3. Centre aperture horizontally only.
4. Centre aperture vertically only.
5. Centre aperture within a designated shape.
Clean rotation is achieved by selecting the aperture then on the right hand side of the front page either enter the number of degrees wanted or click the RED arrow to move in step of 90 degrees. Simplicity itself.


Do they sell a differnt machine in Europe and these problems do not exist?
No. The machines are standard throughout the world.

I hope that I have answered some of your queries. I look forward to receiving your call.
If you have any technical engineering questions then contact either - Nico@valiani.com or Luca@valiani.com -
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 1556
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Cornwall
Organisation: Merlin Mounts
Interests: Aviation


Return to Discussion




 
Picture Framer's Trade Directory
Picture Framer's Oracle

 
Members Map Header
Members Map
More info
Resources Header
Contact Forum Admin
Directory
How to include an image in your post
Cove Box Designer
Download Designer
General supplies
Glass
Machinery
Mounts/Mountboard
Artists
Conservators
Prints
Software
Tuition
UK Medals
Framers Forum Live!
Support Header
Crimson
White
Green
Violet
Advertise Header
Forum Banner Ads