Keencut system 4000

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Nicole
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Keencut system 4000

Post by Nicole » Wed 04 Dec, 2019 8:32 am

I have a problem with Keencut. They appear to have left me high and dry with a perfectly good sheet material cutter the system 4000 but no longer sell the spare glass cutting wheel. I have managed to buy one from Framers Equipment but that is it, one of the last in stock. How can a whole machine such as this be consigned to the scrap heap because the smallest of components is no longer produced? Does anyone have a suggestion? The outlay for a replacement is considerable for my small business. I wondered if it’s possible to get a small component like this made or even have the old wheel sharpened? Is anyone else in the same predicament?
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Steve N » Wed 04 Dec, 2019 1:36 pm

You don't have to chuck it on the scrap heap just for that, it can still cut board, mountcard, plastic glazing, you just have to learn how to cut glass on a bench with a hand held cutter :)
You could always have a go at just taking the cutting wheel out of one of these https://www.lionpic.co.uk/p/13328/Keenc ... ting-Wheel and see if you can fit it in the white plastic holder you have

I always cut my glass on the bench, never seems right to slide a sheet of glass in to the metal channel of the System 4000 or Excalibur 5000 :sweating: :sweating:
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Not your average framer » Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:04 pm

It's not that much of a big deal. It's a standard size of glass cutting wheel and axle, you just need to get a replacement wheel from the original manufacturer and pull the axle part way out and fit the new wheel into the the nylon moulding, which mounts the existing wheel. The earlier versons of the keencut 4000 used a glass cutting wheel in a white nylon moulding and the later ones used a black nylon moulding. Two two types of moulding are not interchangable, but you might be able to obtain the spare parts to fit the later design of turret and fit the newer type of glass cutting head, if the later versons of the glass cutting wheel assembly is still available. I also have a Keencut 4000, so I will need to address the same issue sooner, or later.

However, I'm not all that bothered, as I will soon knock up a wooden jig which sit on to the guide rail on the 4000, with a cut out to permit the glass cutter to clear the edge of the glass and use a hand held glass cutter instead. It seems a bit pointless to buy a new wall mounted cutter for something that is quite simple to solve for only a very small amount of money. I will design the jig so that the piece of wood that touches the existing guide stop will be in live with the edge stop for the piece of glass, so that it is used in much the same way as before. I'm 67 years old and for me, buying a new wall mounted cutter makes no sense, as the old one will last me out.
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by prospero » Wed 04 Dec, 2019 4:51 pm

I had a funny experience with a 5000. It wasn't cutting clean so a bought two new cutters. Tried both and it was worse. :|
In the end I put the old wheel back in and it started cutting clean after I had tweaked the pressure a bit. Been using it ever since.
If the old wheel isn't actually chipped the you might find it will respond to a bit of jiggling. Applying a dab of White Spirit to it
before you start cutting for the day works wonders as well. :D

** Actually, I prefer hand cutting on a bench unless it's a very loooooong cut. I don't like manoeuvring big sheets into the machine either.
It does free up horizontal space though. If I had a dedicated bench I would use that.
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by poliopete » Thu 05 Dec, 2019 6:19 am

I too always hand cut my glass on a bench. IMHO cutting glass is the easiest part of the picture framing process and buying half size sheets that are supplied these makes handling less risky.

If you cut your glass in batches waste is minimised.

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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Steve N » Thu 05 Dec, 2019 7:47 am

poliopete wrote
"If you cut your glass in batches waste is minimised."


Exactly, I cut all the glass that is needed for all the weeks orders in one go, normally on Tuesday morning, I just stick a bit of masking tape on each piece with the work order number on, so I can find it when I start doing all the assembly for the week :sweating:
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Nicole » Tue 10 Dec, 2019 10:48 pm

Thanks all I will give the old wheel a spin as suggested and alos ask keencut about the wheel in the black nylon holder so see if an exchange would be possible into my white holder. I cannot use my bench for cutting as ony have the one so space is at a premium.
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Not your average framer » Tue 10 Dec, 2019 11:25 pm

Being a cold time of year, how cold is your workshop and your glass. Glass get much harder as the temperature drops, glass cutting wheels don't like cold glass. Not only that, but large quantities of glass stored together are seriously slow warming up and tend to stay cold a lot longer than you might be expecting.

Glass is not such a good material to transfer heat when multiple sheets are stacked together. I've wrecked quite a few glass wheels on really cold glass, where the glass gets hard enough to be too hard for the glass cutting wheel. Unfortunately, my workshop gets seriously cold during the winter, as there's too big a gap under the shop door.

Not much to be done about it, the building dates back to the reign of Queen Elizabeth the first and has oak beams in the walls. it's not really viable to adequately heat the shop when it gets really cold.
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by cleaver » Wed 11 Dec, 2019 12:28 am

Wow, I'm very surprised that so many cut glass on the bench. I was sure you all knew exactly how to do it perfectly, but assumed you used a sheet cutter (4000, Excalibur, etc.) for speed/accuracy.

This has encouraged me to give it a try. Until now, I've been ordering cut-to-size from Wessex.

I know there have been plenty of threads on 'manual' glass cutting, but how do you make sure your measuring / cuts are straight? Aside from the technique of cutting/snapping, I'm worried about wonky lines (even slightly wonky would be a problem, i'm sure). Is it with a T square? Also, what cutter do you all favour?

Again sorry for bringing up an old chestnut (if you'll pardon that festive image :shock: ).

:D

Edit. When I say wonky, I mean not only having a poor fit in the frame, but also rendering the rest of the sheet unusable because it's out of square.
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Steve N » Wed 11 Dec, 2019 5:15 am

you only need one bench,

Getting all you glass cut to size!!!!!!!!!! what happens if you chip a bit, and you can't use it, have to wait until you go to wessex again, crikey

https://www.wessexpictures.com/Brass_Ha ... utter.html

https://www.wessexpictures.com/52_Ebonite_T_Square.html

May seem expensive, but my T-Sqaure has lasted the last 11 years since I opened my own place, my last hand held cutter lasted over 25 years, so peanuts

As to how to measure, first have a look at you hand glass cutter, measure from the left hand side to the center of the wheel, which on most cutters are around 2.5 -3mm REMEMBER THIS SIZE lets call it the CUTTER SIZE
move the glass so the bottom edge (the edge nearest you) is overhanging the edge of the bench by about an inche, put the T-square on the glass so that the top edge of the T (but upside down) is against edge of the glass that is overhanging the bench, now with your tape measure, stick the end of the tape on the left hand edge of the glass, move the T-Square along the glass until the right hand side is against your tape measure at the size you want , BUT minus the CUTTER SIZE, so if you are cutting a 40x50cm bit of glass you measure 49.7cm (if you cuttersize is 3mm), now draw the hand cutter down the lenght of the T-Square and come right off the glass into the notch in the T-Square, the sound should be like the sound of silk being torn, now take the t-square off the glass, now with grasp the glass on each side of the score mark break the glass along the line, the action is just like breaking a cheese cracker.
Or go and ask Wessex to give you a glass cutting lesson

Rant over
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by cleaver » Wed 11 Dec, 2019 9:26 am

Thanks Steve, that's the kindest, most helpful 'rant' I've experienced in my life!

I know you are stacked ATM, so I really appreciate you taking the time out to help me...even posting links to the right gear.

You're right about relying on pre-cut. But I've not had too many glazed jobs. TBH, I've not had loads of work, period, since I set myself up framing.....writing jobs have trickled in, so the framing has been word-of-mouth jobs etc. Not complaining, though; I still enjoy copywriting, and it's perfect to be phasing in framing, rather than putting all my cliches in one basket.

Thanks again, Steve. :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Not your average framer » Wed 11 Dec, 2019 4:53 pm

It does not matter if you cannot get replacement glass cutting wheels from Keencut, because you can get them from elsewhere. What follows is just one possible supplier and I have no doubt that there will be more if you want to search for more.

Check out this link: https://www.bohle.com/en-gb/products/in ... ng-wheels/

Minimum order value for this particular supplier is £50 net.
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by sisters » Thu 12 Dec, 2019 2:47 pm

Yes I have a 4000,
Lion have one for Excalibur that fits part number 1688a that's what I use in mine :D

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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Not your average framer » Thu 12 Dec, 2019 4:03 pm

Yes it is still on the Lion website, but it is also marked as discontinued. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by pepper » Thu 19 Mar, 2020 9:29 pm

There are two types of glass cutter, the earlier one is in a black holder it can be obtained through Lion individually or Keencut (code TCGCW £11.16 each sold in packs of 5), if it is the later one in a white holder it is no longer available from Keencut but it is available from GlassParts in Southampton on 800-975-3436 https://www.glassparts.co.uk/plastic-wh ... arch=white.

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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by pepper » Thu 19 Mar, 2020 10:11 pm


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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Not your average framer » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 10:26 am

It's a shame I did not know that earlier, as I have replaced my Keencut 4000 with a Fletcher Terry 3100 so that I could continue to obtain the glass cutting wheel. I could otherwise have saved myself spending rather a lot of money.
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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by BeatnikFraming » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 11:06 am

pepper wrote:
Thu 19 Mar, 2020 9:29 pm
There are two types of glass cutter, the earlier one is in a black holder it can be obtained through Lion individually or Keencut (code TCGCW £11.16 each sold in packs of 5), if it is the later one in a white holder it is no longer available from Keencut but it is available from GlassParts in Southampton on 800-975-3436 https://www.glassparts.co.uk/plastic-wh ... arch=white.

That's a life saver. Just ordered a couple, do you know if they're definitely the right ones? I noticed there's a few different cutting wheels on they're site that look the same

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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by Chris_h » Mon 23 Mar, 2020 10:18 am

Just recieved mine in the post and it works perfectly. Many thanks for the tip, saves me buying a new wall cutter now.

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Re: Keencut system 4000

Post by pepper » Wed 25 Mar, 2020 9:07 pm

Glad to be of help.

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