Sandwich to big.

[raymond]

After adding a double mount, 2.5 mm each. 2 mm mdf. 2 mm display board. I find there is not enough room to fire the flexie tabs in. What can I do?

[David McCormack]

Fire the flexi points in before you add the mdf back board, bend back the flexis and then add back board and bend flexis back over mdf. When I do this I like to add a few rigid points as well so the glass package is not just held in with flexible points. Hope all that makes sense

[Roboframer]

There's rabbetspace which is more professional.

The problem with the folded-over flexis (apart from the fact that flexis are really for ready-mades and you should be using rigid points) is that, even if you use copious layers of frame sealing tape, your frame contents are not actually contained within the frame and this could cause problems in the future.

Another (far cheaper) option is to fit and seal in all bar the backing board (with rigid points) and then cut the backing board to almost the outside dimensions of the frame and glue it on.

[pramsay13]

There are a few options here.
You can fire points in before MDF as David says, then either bend tabs and put MDF in, or just tape MDF in place.
You can cut MDF slightly smaller and then fire points in at an angle.
You can fire points in before MDF, then cut MDF slightly larger than opening and fire in staples or tape in place.
You can use single mount, or a deeper rebate moulding.

[prospero]

If the back protrudes only about a mm or so you can chamfer the back board a tad and fire the points at an angle. Standard framer's points aren't very good in this case as they are long and won't bend. Multipoints (with a hole in and two prongs) are better as they willl bend more easily. Flexi points? A bit too flexi to my mind....
A neater way is to screw/glue a thin piece of wood to the back. Rose&Hollis do several sections of square obeche. 12x4.5mm is handy. 12mm wide is about the minimum width for this method though and you need to have it a reasonable distance from the outside of the frame so that the edge of the extension piece is not visible when the frame is on the wall.
I've never been a great fan of the plastic rabbetspace stuff. Seems a bit of a clunky way. If the frame is wide enough to screw it in then it's wide enough for a wooden extension. It's not cheap. Add to this all the faffing about and you essentially have a moulding twice the price. Far better to use a deeper moulding to start with.

Of course the best way is not to use a moulding with a shallow rebate in the first place. On a single-mounted piece, the sandwich( glass/mount/undermount/back is going to be around 8mm minimum. The great majority of small mouldings have a rebate of about 8-10mm. Not adequate to fire in points laterally without risk of splitting the frame.

This has been a problem for framers as long as there have been framers. Ask a rep why this is so and they'll probably tell you all about timber coming in certain thickness boards and increasing the depth would involve using the next size up board thus doubling the price of the moulding etc, blah blah.... Yet there are small mouldings with generous rebates (12-15mm) that don't cost a fortune. Not a lot, but they can be found if you look hard enough. Shallow mouldings might have their place in frames that have simply glass/thin bit of paper/back. Start adding mounts and you are in for a certain amount of shoe-horning. But manufacturers will continue to make them as long as framers continue to buy them.

[raymond]

Thank you all for coming galloping to my rescue. This is about the most useful forum I have ever joined.
Lot's of different ways to solve this problem, and ponder on. Choosing other rebates seems a bit a of a shame, as I like to carefully choose the moldings for the aesthetics, not the size of the rebates. The sandwich does lay flush with the frame, so as suggested I might be able to angle the pins in.
I have a powered staple gun, as anybody tried using one, would it work better in this situation?
Thanks ever so much for the all the hints and tricks, it's comforting to know that there are people I can turn too, who know the practical side of this business inside out.

[prospero]

Staples are used a lot for fixing backs in. Not a way I particularly approve of. With an air powered gun you should be able to fire them at an angle though the backing board. All well and good unless you want to remove the back at a later (or sooner) date.

[pramsay13]

If the sandwich was a few mm too big I used to cut MDF slightly larger than the opening and fire staples into it using a compressor.
It worked fine, almost too well, and I've now stopped doing it as one time I had put everything together and taped it up and found a bit of fluff under the glass. I had to take everything apart and it was too time consuming.
Now I just fire points in before putting on the backing board, then tape the board in place.

[easypopsgcf]

Canvas offsets........not just for use with canvases

[grahamdown]

if only a mm or two why not use Artbak or similar rather than mdf as you can compress it to fire in rigid points.

[raymond]

That's a good idea, much easier to cut with a Stanley knife as well.

[IFGL]

I had a similar problem here http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... =+sandwich

[Not your average framer]

I stopped allowing customers to use an unsuitable moulding for the depth of the package sometime last year. It just a pointless, time wasting, unprofitable and unprofessional way of doing things and I'm glad I refuse to do it anymore, because all it did was to waste time and reduce the profit on the job.

Usually any cost saving by using a shallow rebated moulding is minimal and puuting in lots of flexi-tabs still does not make a bodge into a good job. Customers can sometimes realise if the job was a bodge, but they also respect you for maintaining your high standards.

[IFGL]

I couldn't agree more Mark, unfortunately every so often one of our staff will forget and sell a moulding with too shallow a rebate, when this happens I usually glue a thin strip of pine to the back and run a bit of colour around the edge, not ideal but it works.