Making mitred splines for a new frame

[Junglewalker]

Can I get a recommendation for method of making the old fashioned mitred splines for the corner join of a 3"'-4" moulding frame.
Presumably join with a few unobstructive underpins before laying on it's face....then tenon saw or electric tool?..any particular wood for the spline?
I wondered if Richard FrameMaker did a blog on this subject..couldn't find it?
Thanks in advance

[Steve N]

Have you got an image of what you want to do

[David McCormack]

spline.jpg (56.84 KiB) Viewed 7591 times

Is this what you mean? For splines that are a few mm thick you will need a table saw and a jig... plenty of Youtube videos. There are some methods that use a biscuit jointer.

You can make them by hand with a tenon saw but the splines will only be as thick as the saw kerf.

[Jamesnkr]

Try putting the word 'spline' into the search box in the top right. You will get hits like:


http://www.theframersforum.com/viewtopi ... ine#p93196

[David McCormack]

I've always been keen on making joins with splines but the only power tool I own is my drill! I thought about using a Japanese dovetail saw and chisel to cut them but gave up on the idea. I may try again with just the thickness of the saw kerf but in the meantime I'm happy with walnut or sapele dowels in oak http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 9&p=116225

[Junglewalker]

The one I am looking for is the old fashioned one that goes across the back of the frame corner making a triangle with the two outer lines of the moulding

[Junglewalker]

Here it is

[Timh]

I think this is referred to as a cross key
a router or tenon saw with a good sharp chisel will make the channel
as for the timber to fit into it use a good quality hardwood and not pine.
also tulip should be ok

this can be cut with a saw, but is hard work or better still a rip saw.
they're also better if cut on a slight angle rather than just straight
all the best with it

[Jamesnkr]

Or a plough plane rather than a chisel. And get yourself a flush-cutting saw too.

[Framemaker Richard]

These are called sliding dovetails, mitre splines, tapered splines, and mitre keys. Common on antique frames, particularly from France and other European countries.

Good video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilEW5V_y6e4

[prospero]

What you need is a router table or a table saw set up with stackable blades.
Make a sliding jig and run the corner though. You could get way with a small
table saw with a single blade, but you would have to faff about making single
passes or cut the outer grooves and then remove the middle with a sharp chisel.


edit. Or do like the guy in Richard's video did.

[Jamesnkr]

Wow, Richard, that's *real* frame porn.

Here's an extraordinary frame for the map by Braun & Hogenberg of Jerusalem. Must cost more than the map did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SsI1v_bao4

[Junglewalker]

Many thanks-would the sliding dovetail in Richard's example have been cut with a tenon saw and chisel?
It looks incredibly straight and accurate and no loss of edge when cleaned up with sand paper..beautiful work with hand tools ?

[David McCormack]

Is a sliding dovetail tapered?

[Junglewalker]

Yes...but I am still impressed how straight and precise the tapering lines of the cut are in Richard's example

[prospero]

Unless you are set on the 'old school' look of the joint there is an easier method just as strong.
After all, when the frame is finished the joint won't be seen. And even if it could, only a framer
would appreciate it.

I did a massive frame once. 4"+ very chunky moulding. V-nails weren't really up to the job.
But if you glue/pin just enough to hold the corner in alignment you can get a long drillbit
and drill right through the corner. The knock in a bit of hardwood dowel right across the dowel.
OK, you have a bit of filling to do. No problem if you are handfinshing. My frame was gold but
the sides were flat so I got a plug-cutter same size as the dowel. Cut some plugs out of scrap moulding
and glued them in the dowel holes.
Worked a treat and while not completely blending in looked neat enough.

[Framemaker Richard]

I don't know Junglewalker if my example was done by hand or router, the frame is around 1900. I don't see why (with enough experience and practice) you could not get very good looking, straight, and precise joints by hand. Most antique frames will have opened up a little, such as the examples below, but even in these cases you can see that when new all the joints would have been very tight, these French frames are between 1820-1860

[Junglewalker]

Thank you Prospero and Richard.Prospero's suggestion is brilliant- a definite for the ideas bank.
Richard's illustration is the best I have seen..wonder If a Japanese "pull saw " might make a good job of the cut.
I like routers but they are violent and the exit cut wouldn't always be as easy as the Swedish guy makes it.

[Not your average framer]

There's some interesting clues in that video, if you know what you are looking for! During the last 1980's, I had a lot of time off with illness problems, which was where a lot of my present day health problems first began. During this time my engineering career was put on hold and I alternated between Restoring antiques (mostly furniture), restoring and repairing old and valuable books and also paper conservation.

Repairing antique furniture, teaches you a lot particularly about various woodworking tools which are no longer made. The little wood plane that was used in the video was almost certainly made by a company called Lie-Nielsen. Some of these Lie-Nielsen plane can cost a scary amount of money, but you are talking about specialist hand tools which make some things possible which are not possible with normal tools.

Sure with a modern router you can do marvelous things, but some of these specialist skew bladed planes, you can plane across the area where three different wood grains met and achieve a seamless perfect result, even when planing across the end grain of the sliding dovetail that is sunk into the rear face of the mitre. These days the modern router in the hands of some one who knows what they are doing produces a first class result, but it often used to be done with a rebate plane in the old days. As you can probably imagine the skew planed result looks far better that the router, especially if it needs to look hand made.

In case anyone missed it, it is sliding key that fits into the dado cut with the router which has been slightly tapered to enable it to be a tapped in tight fit. If you really want to use techniques like this, it's not that difficult to do, but it will take time to prefect your workmanship. Joints like this are also common on some items of antique furniture as well and sometimes the tap in key is missing, so the restorer has to make a replacement.

BTW, there are two ways of preventing problems where the router breaks out of the side, either by cutting into an additional scrap of wood clamped over the breakout point, if using a guide jig you can star a both ends and met in the middle. I hope that you are going to enjoy doing these, because it's not quick to do stuff like this!

[Junglewalker]

Thanks Mark for well observed comments re the video-great craftsman + great tools ( just checked the price on Amazon...wow) The use of router from both ends- meet in the middle is the way forward- did you notice how our great craftsman takes the plane all the way to the end of the outer edge? When we do that a small lump invariably comes off the end.