Fixing a glazed tile into a tray frame

[Jonathan]

I've been asked to frame a glazed tile about 200 x 280 mm into a tray moulding.

I plan to fix a back board into the tray frame leaving about 10 mm space all round. Then just stick the glazed tile to the board with about 5mm space all around.

My question is what glue to use? the back of the tile undulates so will only make part contact with the board. Should I use a two-part resin or silicone? Or something else.

Thanks for any help
Jonathan

[prospero]

The problem is that if you glue something you never know if the glue is going to hold or for how long.
If it fails then the tile is going to drop off and probably chip or break completely.
I'd go for epoxy rather than silicone. If that don't hold it well nothing will. You still don't know if it will fail eventually.

It's better to use some form of mechanical fixing in conjunction with the glue. But with the best will in the world however
you engineer it the fixings will be visible to some extent.

[Jamesnkr]

You're being asked to do magic.

You need:

1. A mechanical fixing that will show;
2. An epoxy resin that will *never* come off the ceramic and thus will potentially devalue it - if the ceramic has a value;
3. Silicone which has a design life of maybe 20 years - assuming you're using a neutral cure (not acidic) silicone. It will fail at some point which will significantly devalue the ceramic (when it smashes).

[Not your average framer]

What's the tile made off? If it's made of plaster, or anything else that contains something that's chalky, then I would not go down the route of adhesive fixing at all, regardless of what the adhesive might be.

Have you considered a push fit fixing into plastizote? This is not only reversible, but solves any issues resulting in chemical attack. Plastizote will a mount hiding most of the plastizote will look quite neat.

Glazing with A/R glass is also a good idea, especially as the glass has so little reflection that you won't be aware that the glass is even there at all.

[Jonathan]

Thank you all for the excellent feedback.

As usual I seem to be looking for the impossible. Invisible sky hooks or similar.

Jonathan

[Framemaker Richard]

If the tile is of no value then I would use a wooden subframe, not a backing board, and an epoxy like Araldite 2015.

I've read a few online articles by the V&A about their methods of fixing and gluing tiles and other similar pieces. Don't take my word for it, the info is out there, but a barrier layer of a reversible adhesive (like paraloid B72) and then araldite 2015 would be a satisfactory solution if you potentially needed to remove from the subframe.

[kuduframes]

If you have a backing board then that would facilitate some strategically placed melinex /mylar straps (which should not be too obvious) to back up one of the suggested adhesive methods.

[prospero]

If you do decide to glue then make sure the surfaces are 'grippy'. Fixing onto an open grained wood (completely bare)
is the best. Avoid pine and MDF. The back of the tile should be fairly porous.

[StevenG]

OK, this may be a stupid question. If, say, the framed tile is purely for decoration why not just use tile adhesive? There's a particular room in my parents house that has tiles on the wall for 40+ years and show no sign of falling off.

Just wondering, y'know Feel free to call me a dumbass btw

[David McCormack]

Thanks featurepiece, you've just asked the question I was too afraid to ask...

[Not your average framer]

I've framed a number of tiles over the years. All of them were in some way special to the customer and considering the fact that there is not a lot of extra cost, then why are you not considering the reversible option. Has the customer been informed of the pros and cons of the non reversible and the fully reversible options.

In my shop, I inform the customer of the different options, the pros and cons, plus the different costs of each option and then the customer is free to make the choice. Customers keep coming back to me, because I am willing to explain things and demonstrate my knowledge at the same time. How are you building your reputation?

Not very many customers want the cheap option, when they can have the reversible, or conservation option for a sensible and relatively reasonable extra added to the price and gain the advantages that go with that option.

Think about it?

[StevenG]

Hi Mark, I understand your point & it is a good one. But what I'm saying is, if there's no value - either sentimental or financial, why not use the most simplest method of all with a product that is designed exactly for that purpose. Someone asked the best way to attach a tile & I suggested tile adhesive That's all I'm saying. Reversible options are great & I welcome all ideas regarding the situation.

You said "Not very many customers want the cheap option", sadly most of my customers are the opposite and people just want stuff 'stuck in'. Oh, and I do explain the differences but very rarely is the slightly more expensive option the one they choose. Actually, I've even had one person choose a 2" mount over a 3" because it was a few pennies cheaper!!!

Crazy old world

[StevenG]

Thanks featurepiece, you've just asked the question I was too afraid to ask...

Aye, I'll take one for the team

Actually I've only ever framed two tiles - one was easy, the customer wanted it with a mount so I just sank the actual tile in a bit of foam board! The 2nd one was already mounted on a board

[Steve N]

featurepiece wrote
" Hi Mark, I understand your point & it is a good one. But what I'm saying is, if there's no value - either sentimental or financial, why not use the most simplest method of all with a product that is designed exactly for that purpose. Someone asked the best way to attach a tile & I suggested tile adhesive That's all I'm saying. Reversible options are great & I welcome all ideas regarding the situation.

You said "Not very many customers want the cheap option", sadly most of my customers are the opposite and people just want stuff 'stuck in'. Oh, and I do explain the differences but very rarely is the slightly more expensive option the one they choose. Actually, I've even had one person choose a 2" mount over a 3" because it was a few pennies cheaper!!!

Crazy old world "

Couldn't agree more, seems customers like to get 'cheap as chips' deals and will brag about how much they managed to beat the price down, had one customer with 6 identical size poster/prints, framed the same, reduced the mount border from 5cm to 4cm to get a better price

[Jamesnkr]

reduced the mount border from 5cm to 4cm to get a better price

I fully realise it's how pricing software works. But... I'll wager that reducing a frame by 2cm per side made no difference at all to the time it took to frame them, or to the quantity of raw materials required (apart from 8cm of backing tape and 2cm of cord per frame). So if it's no cheaper to produce, why should it be cheaper for the customer? Pricing software isn't helping the framer under these circumstances, it's actually working against him.

[Not your average framer]

O.k. I get what you are saying. I'm mostly aiming at the other end of the market.