painting plain wood mouldings

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cliff
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painting plain wood mouldings

Post by cliff »

Hi forumites. Could someone tell me the best method of painting plain wood mouldings to get a nice finish and avoiding brush strokes. Additionally what type of paint works best, acrylic, emulsion or something else?

Many thanks.

Cliff
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prospero
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by prospero »

To avoid brush strokes 100% you need spray kit. And somewhere to spray it away from everywhere else. A lot of sanding and lots of
coats of primer/gesso. All in all it's a lot of faff and expense. It's probably quicker and easier to buy finished moulding, or buy finished
moulding (at the right price) and strip it down to the gesso and respray it.

I like to work with the brushmarks. Make them part of the effect. A dead flat surface is just that. Dead.
Signs of a human touch adds interest. :D

Just my HO. :lol:
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by Not your average framer »

If you are looking for the definative answer, there is no single correct answer. There are many, each of us will offer you his, or hers favourite method, take notice of all of them. One of them may just turn out later to be your favourite method too. Also the techniques will often vary according to the type of wood that you are painting. I'm a bit different to some of the others of this forum, but don't assume that this means that others are wrong. We don't necessarily have exactly the same objectives.

I like to work fast and where I can I like to avoid spending too much time sanding down, so I will seal some woods with a light first coat which is quickly rubbed of with some paper kitchen towels. It is the water content in the paint that causes the grain to rise and when the grain rises, you usually have to do something about it. In the case of a wood like pine, the grain can rise quite a bit.

I get around this by putting the paint on full strength and rubbing off any removable paint immediately by rubbing vigerously with dry paper kitchen towels, the object is to remove as much paint as possible very quickly to avoid the water content from raising the grain. I then dry any futher water content imparted to the wood by drying it with a hot air gun, which I keep moving all the while to avoid burning the surface of the wood, or in the case of pine to avoid the natural resin in the wood from bubbling up out onto the surface of the wood.

There are times when the application of a surface filling primer coat, followed by sand papering will be necessary. One of the favourite such primer fillers on this forum is called "Ripple coat" and I use this from time to time, but I'll leave Prosperro to tell you about this as he is the forum's Ripple coat king. Others again who follow more traditional methods will use gesso, or a mixture of gesso and something else. No doubt others will explain this too.

As for paints I usually use acrylic, or other water based paints and quite often I like to mix acrylic and chalky emulsion paints to get the kind of finish that I like. The finishing techniques and paint variations vary according to the type of wood, sometimes the moulding profile and also the particular result that I am trying to achieve. I'll probably be coming back with a bit more as this thread develops.

We have a tremendous wealth of hand finishing framers on the forum and no doubt many of them will also be contributing to this thread. There is a lot to learn of value from all of them, so try to take plenty of notice of what everyone contributing to this thread. Not all of it may be your particular cup of tea, but you will discover your own preferred methods as you go along. I hope that you will enjoy this as much as so many of the rest of us do.

BTW, I avoid brush marks by lightly stippling the paint and allowing the stipple to hide the paint marks as the paint dries.
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by Jamesnkr »

It is the water content in the paint that causes the grain to rise and when the grain rises, you usually have to do something about it.
When I started, I used to do it the 'proper' way, sand with 120, then 180 then 240 grit. Wet it to let the grain rise, and then knock the risen grain off with 240 grit paper. The whole process took ages.

Mark's suggestion is less faff, but IMO there's still a load of faffing about with kitchen towel and hot air guns.

These days I just whack a coat of paint on and let it dry (you might need to dilute the paint a bit if it feels a bit sticky on the wood). The paint being water based, this will raise the grain; being paint it then fixes it all solid, which means that when you rub with sandpaper what is left is fixed solid and so can be smoothed off. Then I give it a quick rub with 180 or 240 paper depending on how I feel; it really is a quick rub as what you're taking off is the rough top layer of paint (with a bit of wood in it), not wood. Then I paint it again. Job done (after waxing and polishing).

Try doing two thick coats of red paint, and then a thin coat of black, and then rub with steel wool to expose a bit of the red under the black. The rubbing will also make the finish really quite smooth. The red doesn't really show up in the picture, but it just softens it.
munc.JPG
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And then start experimenting with dragged and wiped and stippled finishes; discover gilt varnish.
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by prospero »

My default method is to brush on a layer of pollyfilla, diluted just enough to make it workable. Them wipe off as it dries
with a jiffy cloth. This will fill the pores in the grain. Particularly important with Obeche. This is then smoothed down with
80 or 120 grit. A coat of ripple paint, followed by a another coat - a tad thicker. When this is smoothed down all the grain
should have vanished and you have a good base for your top coats. (I use artist's acrylic). It's not immaculately smooth. But
close enough for rock'n'roll as the saying goes. Adding more coats and sanding in between will make it smoother and more even, but
the law of diminishing returns kicks in and you get a smaller and smaller improvement with each coat. You have to weigh up just
how long you want to spend on it against just how smooth you want it.
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by vintage frames »

Hi Cliff - have we confused you enough yet? Sadly, the Framers Forum may not be the best place to begin seeking advice on handfinishing.
What I mean is that if you are already well down the road with painting and varnishing frames, then indeed the F.F. is a great place to trade and pick up hints and tips on techniques. If you havn't even started however, then most of what you read will be gibberish.
Go back to basics. You say you're interested in antique prints. Then go to London - visit one of the big antique print dealer shops ie Grosvenor Prints, say.
They have loads of dusty old frames on the wall for you to puzzle over. If that gets you fired up then go to your local library. They will also have loads of books on antique furniture restoration and finishing. That's where you will find the real answer to your question.
Prospero hinted at it correctly, too smooth and unblemished a finish is dead - lifeless. Beauty is always in the complex.
There again, all I have said may be just rubbish in that all you want are some nice smooth painted contemporary frames
In that case, any old paint will do. Just keep rubbing it back with wire wool between coats,
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by prospero »

There is a phrase that it well to remember when dealing with HF frames.....

Lyrical Imperfection. :D

I have been known to get a nice smooth black moulding, sand it down and prime it and then paint it black. :roll:
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by Uncle Sumo »

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by poliopete »

Hi Cliff

There's nothing like a question on "hand finishing" frames to generate enthusiastic replies.

Treat what you have read so far like gold. :clap:

FWIW I prefer to cut my four sides first (slightly overcut) it's easier to paint and manipulate shorter lengths. I set my stall out and work sitting down. I use 4" wood blocks covered in cling film (easy to replace) to support the rim sides and when dry and waxed, cut/mitre back to the glass size.

Good luck and enjoy your work.

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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by Not your average framer »

Jamesnkr wrote:Mark's suggestion is less faff, but IMO there's still a load of faffing about with kitchen towel and hot air guns.
It's not as much faffing about as you imagine, I work really fast. It's almost seconds, hopefully someone who has been on the framing course that I put on about 4 or 5 years ago, will tell you just how fast I am. I had to deliberately slow my self down so the those on the course could follow what I was doing.

I don't know if you were around when Pete Bingham was still demonstrating his hand finishing techniques on the Lion Framing stand at the NEC Spring Fair, well he had to deliberately slow himself down so other people could understand what he was doing step by step. In those days he was doing one day training courses. Well, I spent one whole week with him for training and he showed my many of his special finishes which he did not normally show anyone else at all and I have seen him working flat out which was much faster than when he was doing demos at the NEC.

I work fast because after enough practice you not only can work that fast, without messing up anything, but also because you need to work fast to make it pay. Check my other posts and see how many times that I mention how important it is to practice and to be able to work fast in order to make a living by making hand finished frames.
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cliff
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by cliff »

I had a feeling that this might generate quite a response!

Thanks to all for taking the time to offer their suggestions -very helpful. I will get practising!

Cheers.

Cliff
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by David »

My tip for avoiding brush marks is to use a sponge, kitchen scouers are good when you take the green scratchy bit off. Need to wear gloves. Generally use acrylic paint diluted to taste.
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by Steve N »

David wrote
"My tip for avoiding brush marks is to use a sponge, kitchen scouers are good when you take the green scratchy bit off. Need to wear gloves. Generally use acrylic paint diluted to taste."


I do this as well, works well if you are doing a wash on a frame, you can runs down length of moulding with the wash, then when dry , cut and join :clap:
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by red »

having been a painter and decorator in a previous reincarnation I know a little
about brush marks in paint! the tips I can offer is a sound surface
a good quality brush that is 'broken in' the tip of the bush is what
can give a brush mark free finish,it takes a bit of practice but is
not rocket science the technique is called laying off in the trade
hope this helps
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by Justintime »

I can recommend the Daler Rowney D88 One Stroke brushes.
I'm new to hand finishing too, but this is working for me, although time is the issue until I get faster, oh and space. Having 15 frames to finish at once in various colours is a headache..
2x coats of primer undercoat, light sand between coats, at least 2 coats of Farrow and Ball/Earthborn tester emulsion pots, then 2 coats of dead flat acrylic,
luckily this dries in 15 mins (specifically for sealing emulsion).
I use tulip and obeche for these. It's a contemporary finish, with no visible mitres. The brushes are amazing. As others have said perfection is boring. Having spent this time on each frame, I think I see more imperfections than the average viewer would
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by prospero »

My fav brushes are Harris "EasyClean". Not that I clean them much. Once they get wet they never get dry again until
they are totally knackered. I keep them in ice-cream tubs full of water. One set for pale colours and one for darker
strong colours. Quite reasonable price if you buy them online.

For a finer finish I use artist's sable/synthetic flat brushes. Only small sizes though.

I also buy disposable cheap-as-chips natural hair brushes which are as rough as a badger's wotsit but are great for
doing speckly stippled effects and for dragged washes.
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by vintage frames »

I feel that brushes are among the framer's tools of the trade. We wouldn't dream of trying to cut glass with a B&Q cutter, nor cut mitres with a hand saw. So with brushes, they should be the best for the job - ie high quality. Using a cheap DIY brush will always give a DIY result. Of course if you're a skilled operator and do know what you're doing, then you can turn the "cheap" finish to your advantage and indeed there is always a brush for every finish effect.
But as I've said before, buy the best brush you can afford and in the end you'll get a professional result.
Jackson's Art are a good source and price.
https://www.jacksonsart.com/brushes/brushes
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Re: painting plain wood mouldings

Post by Jamesnkr »

I bought some Harris Easy Clean brushes, and I don't much like them. They've really hard bristles.
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