Looking for hand finishing tips

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fusionframer
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by fusionframer »

Hi Steven,

Hope your frame worked. I just did a similar look frame. Just obeche, van dyck crystals to stain and a antique pine wax to finish. Thought i would share this finish.
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StevenG
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by StevenG »

Hey, that looks fantastic, it's just the finish I'm looking for. Actually I'm just starting mine today, hopefully I can replicate those results. Thanks for posting that :)
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by StevenG »

If anyone is interested - here's how it turned out. I didn't have a chance to get any shellac - couldn't find anywhere local that sold it - I'll get some just for the future though, I've looked at Amazon, they have various brands but I really don't know what to get - any pointers to what I should be look for please?

Anyway, I'm really impressed with the crystals - they do give a much nicer finish that any stain I've ever used.

This is simply two coats plus some Georgian Mahogany wax. I think it ended up quite good - mostly down to the advice :) Height wise it's just over 5ft and the guy came to collect in a little Toyota Yaris but that's another story :head: :Slap: :D
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by vintage frames »

Well, there you are then. Nice job. Don't worry too much about the shellac. Here's what you could have used -
[url][/https://www.amazohttps://www.amazon.co. ... shellacurl]
The shellac only acts as a barrier to prevent two paints from interfering with each other or to aid waxing, where the wax soaks into the wood too readily. If your stain wasn't as dark as you'd used, then the need for shellac would have become more pertinent.
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by poliopete »

I agree "nice job" :clap: and thanks for posting :D

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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by Not your average framer »

Nice job! You won't look back now, getting started can be a bit off putting, but now you've taken that first step and proved to yourself what you are able to accomplish, I think that you will start enjoy trying a few more finishes and ideas. Give it a little while and you might be one of those giving tips to others.

Well done looks great! :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by prospero »

Excellent Job. :D

Shellac is not difficult to get hold of, but it's a bit 'old school' so if you enquire in the big sheds they will most likely
look at you gone out. :roll: I get it online. The basic stuff is called 'Button Polish'. This is the unadulterated version.
It gives a distinctly orange tone to wood. In addition there is a bleached version which imparts minimal colour shift and
various colours such as 'Garnet' (reddish) and Ebony (black). I use it mainly for a barrier primer. It sticks to most things
and accepts water-based paints.

On a side note, grave news, :| Wickes have discontinued Smooth Ripple Paint. :shock: I have obtained a pot of B&Q brew
but haven't tested it yet......
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by Not your average framer »

I have not used the B &Q version of Wickes Ripple Coat, but from what I heard a few years ago the Wickes Ripple coat was better than the B & Q stuff. Unless B & Q have changed their formulation in the intervening years, I was told that the B & Q stuff has less thickness and therefore requires more coats to build up to the same thickness. I've not heard of any similar products being available from other suppliers, so I'm guessing that the B & Q stuff maybe all we can get now.

I'm not sure how easy it may be to formulate an alternative, that we can make up ourselves. There is a limit to how much solid matter that you can successfully add to a given volume of any particular binding agent, without weakening the effectiveness of the binder. Sadly you probably have to find this out by trial and error. The other problems are ensuring good sandability, adhesion qualities when painting over this stuff when drying, water resistace after this stuff has dried and adhesion qualities to the wood surface to which this will be applied.

At this stage, I'm waiting to hear how effective the B & Q stuff is. Unfortunately, I'm not hopeful and I have not found my local B & Q a remotely reliable outlet to deal with. Lots of stuff goes out of stock and even when you ask them to order something for you, it never happens. I find Homebase quite a usefull place for buying Farrow & Ball paints, but apparently the company is in difficulty and looking for a buyer. It's a really together and reliable company as well, for me it will be difficult if they will not be able to continue as they are!
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by fusionframer »

Farrow and ball is now being sold in b & q.

Great finish by the way Steven.

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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by vintage frames »

Ripple paint is just a synthetic gesso. You would use it to build up a base for further finishes in that it fills the grain and can be sanded to a smooth finish. Well, there are two ways of making your own. Mix whiting ( available widely) with diluted PVA untill you have a thick paint or just add whiting to some white emulsion, again untill you have a thick paint. The emulsion can give a bit of a vinyl-y effect however unless you can get plain matt emulsion.
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by prospero »

:D So far I've only just got around to prising the lid off the B&Q paint. It looks fairly thick. :roll:

I did toy with the idea of mixing ordinary emulsion with something like Gilders Whiting to bulk it up.
As Mark says, the proportions are critical.
It's all a bit of a pisser. :cry: When you switch to a new product you cannot be sure how good it really is
until you have tested it well. This could take months. I've about 4L if the Wickes stuff left....
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by StevenG »

Hi, you're all very generous with the compliments, but I've a looooooooong way to go before I get anywhere near the proper hand finishing results that I see on here. Anyway, thanks again for all the tips & support. :clap:

PS The ripple paint discussion is quite interesting :)
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by poliopete »

After reading prospero's "grave news" regarding Wicks discontinuing their Smooth Ripple Paint and checking my stock level, I have around 4/5 litres :) enough for a very long time at my current rate of hand finishing.

I would be interested in knowing if any one has tried the Dulux Ripple or any other make including the "Landlord" brand of Ripple that comes in a range of colours :?:

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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by Not your average framer »

I'm trauling around the web at the moment looking for ripple paint links, as I find any I will add them to this post.

https://plascon.com/products/products/p ... ple-finish

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POLYCELL-TEX ... Sw3jBayzzv

https://www.wilko.com/wall-paint/wilko- ... vt/2307240

That's about all I can find right now. I would be interested to hear if anyone has used any of these products and want offer any recommendations.
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by prospero »

I think I found the same ones Mark. :D

Some is way to expensive. About £5 a litre is the right price. You have to watch out for 'coarse' finishes.
Wickes still do (?) a coarse ripple paint. I got some once by mistake and it is just smooth ripple with a lot of
grit in it. Tried filtering out the grit but it's too thick to go though the filter. :cry:
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by Not your average framer »

I can't say that I am surprised to hear that! Finding a suitable replacement for smooth ripple coat may be far from easy. I'm not all that sure what would make the best binder, if we decided to go down the route of making our own substitute. The trouble with using PVA is that it is not a porous substance and will not only seal the surface when it has dried, but also tends to be a bit glossy and this may not help with adhesion of whatever is going to be applied over the filler.

During my time as a bookbinder, I found that it was a common practice when working with leather to delay the setting time of PVA by mixing it with bookbinders starch paste. I noticed that as a side effect, any left over PVA / starch paste mix dried with a really noticable matt textured finish. I'm wondering if this may be something worth trying as a possible binding agent. I would not recommend this without trying it first, but that's about as far as my thinking goes right now.

As already suggested whiting sounds like the right solid matter to add to the mix.
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by vintage frames »

If you want to make your own ripple type paint then squeeze out a large blob of PVA into a dish. Slowly add some water, stirring until you have a whole- milk consistency. Now ladle in some whiting and keep going until your mixture feels like double cream. And that's it.
As Mark, NYAF suggests, if there is not enough whiting in the mix, then the PVA predominates and can leave a hard, shiney finish. Too much whiting gives you porridge,but that is fairly obvious as you mix it in.
The ideal is a smooth drying paint that sands to a marble like finish.
But then you could otherwise spend hours searching through the internet for another tin of paint to just pop open.
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by Not your average framer »

One of the reasons why so many people liked Wickes smooth ripple coat, was because of it qualities when the dried finish needed to be sanded down. I'm thinking that getting the right mix of water, PVA and whiting will enable you to optimise it's sanding qualities.

I'm not suggesting that you aim for any particular measured ratios, but instead just mix as Vintage frames suggests and just observe over time how weakening, or strengthening the water to PVA and afterwards the amount of whiting added affects the sanding qualities.

This is more of an instinctive thing than anything scientific, or quantitive. You will just develop a feel for it after a while. I know people almost joke about a dash of this or that in the mix, but after a while you will get to the point where you find that is how it works.
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Re: Looking for hand finishing tips

Post by prospero »

:D Yes. They say the best chefs never measure anything. :lol:

I use the ripple paint for 'dusty' washes as it dries with a very matt, chalky surface. In this case I dilute
it a lot. I've tried thickening up the already thick consistency for very heavy textured finishes. Mostly with
powder paint (the school stuff), to make almost a paste. That works OK as long as you don't overdo it, but
the powder paint has it's own binder in which seems to help. Using pure powder pigment you can sometimes
get a mix that is too crumbly.
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