Margin between double pictures

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Rainbow
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Margin between double pictures

Post by Rainbow »

I've got two small pictures to frame, one above the other. The visible area of the pictures is 13.5 x 13.5cm and the customer wants a narrow border, 3.5cm all round. I'm not sure whether to make the margin between the pictures 3.5cm or slightly smaller. Any suggestions please?
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by pramsay13 »

I normally make this smaller than the outside margin.
Your outside border will only look around 25 - 30mm wide depending on the frame rebate, so I make the middle one the same as the border you can see.
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by David McCormack »

I prefer the look of a narrower gap between the windows than the outside margin. With an outside margin of 35mm I'd go for around 20mm for the middle. But it very much depends on the images you are mounting? With such a small mount, I'd just cut it and see... cut another if it looks wrong :D

As an aside, if a customer asks for a margin of 35mm and the frame has a rebate of say 7mm then I'd cut the window mount with margins of 42mm so the visible margin on the finished frame is 35mm :rock:
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by David »

I usually use a ratio of 2/3rds the visible main mount surround, so if 35mm was showing I would use around 24mm.
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by MITREMAN »

I agree with David (N0.2)around 24mm (2/3rds) is a good rule of thumb.

But David McCormack (David No 1) point is important as a lot of the width can be lost within the rebate width, thus making the mount look mean and not what the customer wants.
David McCormack wrote:As an aside, if a customer asks for a margin of 35mm and the frame has a rebate of say 7mm then I'd cut the window mount with margins of 42mm so the visible margin on the finished frame is 35mm
Personally I would advise the customer to have a drop bottom to had weight and perspective of 12mm (1/2") and make a proper custom job. :D
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by Not your average framer »

Yes, I also like to weight the bottom border and if the customer is agreeable I like to use a double mount in cases like this with a single aperture in the front mount which ties the two apertures in the rear mount together. Two thirds is a good ratio and is not that far away from the so called golden mean, or golden rule. So in this case I would be looking at the the reveal between the aperature in the front mount being a little smaller than the two thirds for the margin between the two apertures in the rear mount.

I also totally agree about taking into account the hidden part of the mount hidden by the rebate of the frame moulding. For me the width of mount margins also has to take into account the overall width of the frame moulding, so that all the proportions are in keeping with each other. I can't remember if there has been a discussion thread exactly the same as this one before, but I think that this is an interesting and informative subject and it will be interesting to see how the thread develops.
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by Rainbow »

Really helpful replies, thanks. I've done it with a slightly narrower "band" between the two images and it looks great. I've made the bottom a few mm deeper, which I typically do anyway but I couldn't go back to the customer to see if they wanted a much deeper bottom border. I'll know to suggest it another time though, thanks.
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by Justintime »

Mal (?) from FATG has some videos on YouTube about mounts, widths ratios etc which I found very informative. Is his business Harlequin framing? Think his YouTube channel is too.
From a general aesthetic point of view these ratios are a really useful guide. I read somewhere that the visual centre of an image is slightly above dead centre, hence the need to bottom weight.
I still like to throw the rule book out of the window sometimes..
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by Justintime »

Not wanting to hijack this thread, but I think it's related..
When cutting mounts of different depths, do people subtract the depth of the bevel from the width in order to get exact windows?? I've struggled with this when there's an image with a line around it that the bevel must butt up to exactly. I can't fing any info on this. It can seem negligible with a 1400 board but very obvious with a 2400 board, any advice? Or I can start a new thread..
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by prospero »

Rainbow wrote:I'm not sure whether to.......
That's the key to the whole issue. If you have a niggly feeling that something isn't right then it probably isn't.

The elements of design are very subtle and work largely on a subconscious level. :D

Remember, you see with your eyes. Not a ruler. :roll:
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by MITREMAN »

Well said Prospero,

"Remember, you see with your eyes. Not a ruler."

Every Framer as artistic licence, so if you look it and think Wow that looks great and your eye goes to the artwork and not the frame or mount then leave it alone and Let it go, Let it go :D

Don't always take the easy way out with equal boarders with just little bit more time you can have a better looking product.

Measure twice cut once :head:
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by maguirei »

Justintime wrote:Not wanting to hijack this thread, but I think it's related..
When cutting mounts of different depths, do people subtract the depth of the bevel from the width in order to get exact windows?? I've struggled with this when there's an image with a line around it that the bevel must butt up to exactly. I can't fing any info on this. It can seem negligible with a 1400 board but very obvious with a 2400 board, any advice? Or I can start a new thread..
The depth of the mountboard should not make any difference to size of the window. So if you set your stop to 50mm then the blade will always enter the board at the same point - no matter what the depth of the board is. This assumes that you are cutting from the back of the board of course. Hope I've understood your problem correctly!
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by David McCormack »

I agree, when setting the mat guide limit stop (on a ultimate gold) you should calibrate it so the underside of the window-mount is correct and then as maguirei says, the thickness of the board should not make any difference to the size of the window. If you are cutting windows and they are not the size you expect, I would recalibrate your machine including checking it is square.

I assume when you say 'can' I start a new thread you mean 'should'? Anyone can start a new thread, the more the better :D :clap:
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by David McCormack »

prospero wrote:Remember, you see with your eyes. Not a ruler. :roll:
David McCormack wrote: I'd just cut it and see... cut another if it looks wrong :D
Sometimes it's the only way... we should rely on our eyes more often :D
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by David McCormack »

David McCormack wrote:I assume when you say 'can' I start a new thread you mean 'should'? Anyone can start a new thread, the more the better :D :clap:
I've already got me coat on... you said "I can" not "can I"... it's my eyes you know.. I just can't rely on them :Slap: :oops: I'll shut up now and get on with some framing :giggle:
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by Justintime »

Thanks both, yes think I need to recalibrate it... :giggle:
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Re: Margin between double pictures

Post by prospero »

Try jiggling it a bit. :P

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