Very deep frames

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Fellows Framing
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Very deep frames

Post by Fellows Framing »

Hello all,

I have been asked to make a frame 16cm deep painted white and capped with a white moulding.

The deepest I can get from my supplier is 7cms, even 2 stacked mouldings of this is too shallow.

The query I have is how do you guys do such frames:
triple stacked? do the joins show?
psi timber from diy stores - but what about the bowing and twisted - just tried this and one corner was 1 cm out!
treated kiln dried timber - but where do you get it from?

Any tips, ideas, advise are most welcome please.

Thanks in advance.
Sarah
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Re: Very deep frames

Post by Not your average framer »

There are ways and means of doing deep frames which are not all that difficult, but more information would be required before specifying how to do this. O.k., you've given the depth of the frame, but to decide how strong and therefore how large the framing materials need to be, we need to know the height and width as well.

Frames like this have been made by many different framers over the years, but unless you are planning to get a moulding specially machined to size, you will probably be "stacking off the shelf" bare wood mouldings and hand finishing them after assembly of the mouldings into the completed frame. Can you hide the joins, well sort of!

One of the common ways of doing this is to cut and join wide flat moundings on the outside edge and stack however many mouldings as required into the now forward facing rebate of each adjoining moulding, with the resulting joins being hidden behind the overlapping sight edge of the adjoining moulding. This will result in a narrow steps inwards along the outside of the frame, which appears to be all one moulding after hand finishing.

As you stack and glue the different layers of mouldings together any tendancy within any one moulding will be reacting against any tendancies in the other mouldings in the stack, which normally limits any overall warp within the completed frame. In effect this produces a laminated moulding, but this only works if all the mouldings are glued together.
Mark Lacey

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David McCormack
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Re: Very deep frames

Post by David McCormack »

Sounds like a job for a carpenter rather than a picture framer :giggle:
Even the A333/A335 combo from Rose & Hollis isn't deep enough! Could you even cut that on a morso, I don't know?

You may have to get the moulding made for you and then paint it but the problem will be cutting and joining.

I have had moulding made for me in tulipwood by forum member Timh at Kingswood Fames, could be worth contacting him?
A333A335.jpg
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Not your average framer
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Re: Very deep frames

Post by Not your average framer »

David McCormack wrote:but the problem will be cutting and joining.
That's why it's easier to do it with stacked mouldings, which can be cut and joined individually and then glued together afterwards.
Mark Lacey

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Fellows Framing
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Re: Very deep frames

Post by Fellows Framing »

Thanks both.

Mark please could you explain this is more detail
Not your average framer wrote:One of the common ways of doing this is to cut and join wide flat moundings on the outside edge and stack however many mouldings as required into the now forward facing rebate of each adjoining moulding, with the resulting joins being hidden behind the overlapping sight edge of the adjoining moulding. This will result in a narrow steps inwards along the outside of the frame, which appears to be all one moulding after hand finishing.
How can it look like one moudling without out alot of sanding?

Sarah
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prospero
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Re: Very deep frames

Post by prospero »

There is always the 'cuckoo clock' method. :D

If you can make a box from MDF of plywood. (As David mentions, that's more woodwork than framing) you can face it
with almost any moulding you like. Many DIY stores will slice it to width for you. A local 'proper' timber yard will be better
if you can find one. I've found Jewsons very helpful if there is a branch nearby. You would be able to Morso a 6" wide plank
but you don't really need to mitre it. You couldn't underpin it either so it's hammer&nails. Once you have it joined all you
need is to paint it black or whatever.... Minimal sanding required.
You wouldn't need a rebate on the back - just fix the back on with glue/nails. Do all your mounting and dress up the box
interior as you will. When you have done this all you need to do is to fix a face frame inc. glass to the front. Many ways
of doing this. There are all sorts of little brackets available.
Fletcher Multipoints are handy for this job. Of course, it depends of the scale of the frame exactly how you achieve this.
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Re: Very deep frames

Post by Not your average framer »

Fellows Framing wrote:How can it look like one moudling without out alot of sanding?
Because the mouldings are joined as close fits with glue gaps that allow the glue to dry with no possible movement between the individual mouldings, therefore no possibility of movement between the mouldings to cause any cracks in the overall painted finish. I also try to fill and blend the transition between the mouldings before hand finishing with the water based version of "no more nails". I would add that besides gluing the mouldings together, I pin them together so that nothing can move out of position while the glue is setting.

I try not to use clamps, unless there is no other way. It's not that I don't have any clamps, I've got lots of them, but pinning them together saves valuable time. I use pneumatic staple guns, brad guns and a headless pinner. I aim to join them in such a way as to hid my fixings as I add each moulding to the stack. If I must use a fixing through an outer surface which is intended to be hand finished, I always try to use my headless pinner and use the hand finishing to hid the pin from view below the painted finish.

The amount of pneumatic pressure required to fire each fixing below flush will vary acording to the hardness of the wood, my guns are driven slightly above the maximum pressure that the guns are rated for to ensure that I always drive below flush. If you are going to be creating stacked moulding frames on a regular basis (like myself), then pneumatic guns are your friends. They will save you lots of valuable time.

I always try to start with the outer frames first and trim the other frames to allow a half millimeter glue gap all around between each frame. There are times when the fixings between frames will close this gap up a little, so don't leave too big a gap as this will close up too much and leave visible bowing under pressure between the mouldings. It's better not to leave enough gap to do this!
Mark Lacey

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Re: Very deep frames

Post by fusionframer »

The size and choice of moulding for the face of the frame would be useful to know. I would then use:

http://www.roseandhollis.co.uk/products/a339/


Whereabouts in gloucestershire are you? I would be happy to machine and help join if you would like help. I am near Badminton.

I would choose front frame, then as said, use a339 and run through my thicknesser to get right depth. I would then join, either with pocket screws or biscuits. Finally a sand.

Happy to help if i can.

Nick
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