Making a non square frame

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lehcar32
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Making a non square frame

Post by lehcar32 »

Hi
I am wondering if there is anyone out there with experience of making frames to fit funny spaces and where the angles are not going to be 90 degrees.

My friend wants me to make a mirror to fit the space at the top of her stairs (the back wall in the attached pic) the top two corners will be 90 degrees and the bottom corners will be ? degrees... basically the bottom of the frame needs to follow the diagonal line of the wall. However I don’t know how to go about measuring the angles needed and what tools I need for this.

I have a morso F which I believe I can adjust to cut angles other than 45 degrees although I’ve never tried it, and I’m using a cassesse 810 underpinner to join frames.

Any tips to get me started with this challenge would be much appreciated!
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by David McCormack »

I had a mirror to frame exactly as yours a few years back. Looking at your photo I would guess at the angles to be 60 and 120 degrees. Obviously all your angles should equal 360. I used a clamp and when the glue had dried overnight I underpinned without any problems. The photo in this thread shows my frame but the angles aren't so obvious viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14766#p115605 see 9th post down. I cut the two odd angles by hand and then trimmed on a mitre trimmer. Plain wood and a hand finish would be a good choice so you can fill any gaps. A simple cheap plastic protractor is what you need to measure one of the odd angles then add to 180 and then subtract from 360 to get the forth angle.
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by JFeig »

This type of job requires two basic tools
an adjustable miter gauge and an adjustable miter saw.
Image
These measuring devices can be anywhere from $30 - $300
The protractor in the center of the rule is the key part to accurate angle measurement. For each corner measure the angle of the corner and divide by 2 for the angle of the miter to be cut. Setting the protractor at the "miter angle" is transferred to the saw to the proper angle for cutting.

DON'T FORGET TO MEASURE TWICE... CUT ONCE.
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Steve N
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by Steve N »

Cut template out of cardboard to the full size including the frame to fit the space, then with a piece of the moulding you are going to use, place this on you template lining up with the outer edge of card, mark the template on the inside of the moulding, so you draw a line all the way around the template , the width of the mounding in from the edge (does that make sense ? :worried: )

At each corner draw a line from the outer edge of the corner to the inner lines, this will give you the angle of the mitres, you can cut a bit of card to the same angle and line up the saw blade on a manual cutter to this angle or a cross cut saw
quick example of the above instructions
quick example of the above instructions
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join as you feel fit,

As David said use plain wood moulding then you can fill etc and paint/stain

You can use the template to get the measurements for the mirror and backing
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prospero
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by prospero »

You can cut obtuse obtuse corners on a Morso OK, although you can't use the measuring scale. It's a case of shaving it to a pencil mark
to get the right length. Acute corners can't really be done. You might manage on a power chop saw with a bit of head-scratching and
some templates. :roll:

It's question of fiddling about until you get the right fit. Plain wood was an excellent suggestion. :lol:

You may have to resort to good old hammer and nails in the non-90º corners. V-nails will go in, but they will cut across
the grain which may lead to weakness in the joint.

One tip: Don't cut the mirror and try and make a frame to fit it. Make the frame and then cut the mirror. :wink:

Good Luck. :D
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lehcar32
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by lehcar32 »

Thank you all very much for your quick replies. Luckily she is after a natural wood frame and not in a particular hurry so I can fiddle about with it.

I have a band clamp but it’s a very cheap one from screwfix so I might invest in a Bessey one as suggested.

The space is pretty big so I may not be able to make a cardboard template but I could make a smaller one and do a mock up just to check eveything before I go for it in big.

Thanks again, all very helpful and seeming less scary now!
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by Steve N »

Three good reasons for using a full size template

1 You can check all the angles are correct and will line up on the wall where you want it

2 Your friend/client can see if it look right up on the wall, better now, than when you put the finished frame up and they say, "bigger than I thought, can you make it smaller? "

3 If you can't get the template into the space , then you ain't going to get the finished frame in there either

As to "The space is pretty big so I may not be able to make a cardboard template but I could make a smaller one and do a mock up just to check eveything before I go for it in big."

Well make it out of MDF or whatever you are going to back the finished mirror with, you can always cut the template down (when your are ready to assemble) and use it for the backing of the framed mirror
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by Not your average framer »

I've done stuff like this before. I have tried just taking measurements and angles, but it very hard to it right like this. In the end, I ended up using a template and could have saved myself a lot of trouble, if I did so in the first place. BTW, it's easier with a large frame profile than a small one.

Forget band clamps for anything big, it did not work for me at all. I've assembled job like this on a flat surface and drilled and screwed the corners one at a time. It takes a lot longer than you think.

I'm not sure that I would be particularly keen to be cutting the mirror glass, unless I can use a moulding with a nice wide rebate. You are braver than myself, these days I turn down jobs like that!
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by prospero »

The last time I did a 'funny' frame was back in the days of wallpaper-wrapped mouldings. I got the urge to do some
octagonal mirrors. I knew no fear in them days and cut some big, chunky stuff on the Morso. It was fortunate that
I didn't get the mirrors first because the when I finished shaving the 8 pieces so they would fit together the frames were
about 2" smaller than I originally intended. :lol:

It's one of those projects than you have to do once but having done it you are not in a hurry to repeat. :|
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lehcar32
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by lehcar32 »

Thanks all for the replies, I'm not scared to cut the mirror glass, although I will report back on how well it goes and we will see how foolish I am!
I'm hearing you about the template - it makes sense, and I've looked at the space again and it isn't really that big. I think it was a mountain/molehill situation!
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by lehcar32 »

I thought I would add an update about the mirror.... It's finished!
It was a challenge for sure but I am really pleased with the result. I did make a template in the end using an angle measurer I bought from amazon. I borrowed a chopsaw to cut the angles - I had to make a jig for it to cut the acute angle by following a YouTube video. I used a lot of glue and the underpinner without the clamps to stick a couple of staples in each corner. The Bessey band clamp was a great investment! I cracked the glass on the first attempt but the second was plain sailing. After doing it I found out that Wessex will cut the glass for you if you give them a template. Good to know for the future. The colour wasn't my choice but the customer is happy. Thanks all for you help and advice.
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by David McCormack »

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Making a non square frame

Post by Not your average framer »

Well done, I know that jobs like this can be plenty of hassle. Looks good!

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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