Final finish for hand painted frames..

Get help and framing advice from the framing community
Post Reply
lawrieh
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: London
Organisation: Lawrie
Interests: Web design, photography, cycling, big blue skies and making....

Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by lawrieh »

I am just starting to make hand finished/painted frames.

One of the reasons is I hope it presents a better product and also that most of them will be made for someone who moves their work around to art events regularly and no matter how careful they are they get dings in the their frames.

I am hoping that by hand finishing and dings can be filled, sanded and repainted with the original paint. One problem in using them un waxed is that they pick up lots of finger prints and get grubby quickly.

My question is that if I wax and buff the final coat I am guessing this will make repair very difficult or impossible if I repaint with traces of wax on the frame? Is there an alternative?

> Satin or similar paint so it has its own sheen?
> remove wax before repair with lighter fluid or similar?
> oil based paint? (don't really want to do this even if it worked)

Any ideas would be gratefully received...
User avatar
David McCormack
Posts: 1442
Joined: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 10:14 am
Location: South Lakes
Organisation: Framing
Interests: Cycling, walking, darkroom photography and laughing a lot!
Location: Cumbria
Contact:

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by David McCormack »

If I had to repair/retouch a painted and waxed frame I would remove the wax with white spirit first, touch up with paint and then re-wax the frame. For most of my painted frames I now use Polyvine Dead Matt acrylic varnish as a final coat. If I had to retouch one of these I would just retouch with paint & varnish over the affected areas.

Don't use oil based paint! :(

Basically, if you applied the finish then it is relatively easy to repair the frame :D
"You know, there's a right and wrong way to do everything!"
Oliver Hardy.
https://www.instagram.com/davidaustinmccormack/
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by Not your average framer »

Polyvine dead flat wax finish varnish contains coloidial silica, which is very fine ground up silica. The coloidial silica won't stop the dings, but it is highly scuff resistant, so it does help to some degree with durability. Coloidial silica is the normal additive for producing matt paints and varnishes.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by prospero »

You have hit the nail on the head saying that hf frames are more repairable than factory finished. :yes:

Some hand-finishes are easier to repair than other. Strangely enough, it's the more refined and complex finishes that are easier to fix.
I do a lot of frames for one pro artist who has to lug big frames to exhibitions and wotnot. Now and again he dings one. I can fix
them easily, even with quite catastrophic damage. On the other hand, I have had factory finished frames from other sources that
have quite minor damage which are impossible to 'touch up' successfully. These frames can represent a big loss. One way they get
damaged is red 'sold' stickers. Pull them off and take the leaf with them. Then you have a permanent red spot. Had two like that.
They were huge and maybe would run to £500 to replace.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
vintage frames
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by vintage frames »

As already said, easily remove the wax with some white spirit and 0000 wire wool. Current fashion prefers a dryer finish on frames, so a matt varnish will look better and will hold a thin coat of wax better. I find that pure beeswax in turpentine gives a finer finish than many commercial waxes where the additives can give a slightly greasy feel to the polish.
Affordable Gilding Course for Professional Framers-https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
lawrieh
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: London
Organisation: Lawrie
Interests: Web design, photography, cycling, big blue skies and making....

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by lawrieh »

Great and many thanks again for everyone's input.

I will buy beeswax, turps and polyvine matt varnish in the morning to experiment.

:D
lawrieh
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: London
Organisation: Lawrie
Interests: Web design, photography, cycling, big blue skies and making....

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by lawrieh »

Just bought Polyvine and Turps, will arrive tomorrow. Isn't Amazon amazing? (order at 8:45pm for next day delivery!)
User avatar
David McCormack
Posts: 1442
Joined: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 10:14 am
Location: South Lakes
Organisation: Framing
Interests: Cycling, walking, darkroom photography and laughing a lot!
Location: Cumbria
Contact:

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by David McCormack »

Out of interest which Polyvine varnish did you order? I've been using the dead flat decorators varnish and I know that Mark uses the wax finish varnish. The dead flat finish is not truly dead flat, say like the F&B estate emulsion, but it is very nice indeed. Both photos are of a dead flat decorators varnish over F&B emulsion. You can see there is some reflection on the finish but in normal lighting it really is very good.

You can also see the varnish on these strut backs viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16720
Dead Flat-2.jpg
Dead Flat-2.jpg (392.32 KiB) Viewed 6106 times
Dead Flat-1.jpg
Dead Flat-1.jpg (615.08 KiB) Viewed 6106 times
"You know, there's a right and wrong way to do everything!"
Oliver Hardy.
https://www.instagram.com/davidaustinmccormack/
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by Not your average framer »

I've no idea what the difference between the two dead flat varnishes might be and at the time I first ordered the one I use, I was not aware of the other varnish. Do you know if either one any better than the other?
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
User avatar
David McCormack
Posts: 1442
Joined: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 10:14 am
Location: South Lakes
Organisation: Framing
Interests: Cycling, walking, darkroom photography and laughing a lot!
Location: Cumbria
Contact:

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by David McCormack »

Can't really say as I've only used the decorators varnish. I've attached the specs sheets and links to the product pages.

http://www.polyvine.com/index.php/en/?o ... icle&id=97

http://www.polyvine.com/index.php/en/?o ... cle&id=100
decorators varnish.pdf
(33.23 KiB) Downloaded 126 times
wax finish varnish.pdf
(99.93 KiB) Downloaded 127 times
"You know, there's a right and wrong way to do everything!"
Oliver Hardy.
https://www.instagram.com/davidaustinmccormack/
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by Not your average framer »

The decorators varnish is suitable for interior and exterior use, but the wax finish varnish is only suitable for interior use. Apart from that the wax finish varnish dries silky smooth. Take your pick which one you like!
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
lawrieh
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: London
Organisation: Lawrie
Interests: Web design, photography, cycling, big blue skies and making....

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by lawrieh »

I bought the Wax finish one. It's in a white bottle and white label as opposed to the greenish plastic bottles for the rest of their range.

Didn't have time to try it I but hope to tomorrow. I will be painting it on top of Dulux Trade Matt Flat paint. My next step will be to experiment more with paint manufacturers. F&B get mentioned often but are there other makes that I should consider?
User avatar
David McCormack
Posts: 1442
Joined: Tue 02 Aug, 2011 10:14 am
Location: South Lakes
Organisation: Framing
Interests: Cycling, walking, darkroom photography and laughing a lot!
Location: Cumbria
Contact:

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by David McCormack »

I’ve been using Winsor & Newton Galeria Acrylic paints recently and I’m thinking I won’t bother with F&B anymore. It’s much easier to mix the paints straight from the tube rather than from a tin pot! I find the quality and consistency of the paint to be good and so far have been able to mix the colours I want from their range.
"You know, there's a right and wrong way to do everything!"
Oliver Hardy.
https://www.instagram.com/davidaustinmccormack/
louisesimon
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed 18 Jul, 2012 8:00 pm
Location: Stroud
Organisation: Peckham Pictures (closed)
Interests: Framing, Art, Photography
Location: Stroud
Contact:

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by louisesimon »

The good thing about the FB and little green etc, is you can by a tester pot for £4 meaning you don't need to mix the paint, making it an awful lot easier when the customer comes back in asking for the same colour. Also I asked a guy in Brewers the difference between white and greenish bottled polyvine and he said they just rebranding and will all be white bottled in the future.
lawrieh
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: London
Organisation: Lawrie
Interests: Web design, photography, cycling, big blue skies and making....

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by lawrieh »

Polyvine works a treat, although a little difficult to apply onto an off white paint as I found it difficult to see where I had applied/not applied it, that's just a very minor thing. I will be using it from now on. Thanks for the suggestions.

FYI... I had to pop into B&Q this morning and get some matching paint for a damaged finished moulding frame. It cost me just £3 for a colour matched sample pot of matt emulsion. I really wanted the eggshell finish but that wasn't available in tester pot size. The tester pot is fairly generous in size (236ml)which would be enough for a fair few frames.
Justintime
Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat 26 Sep, 2015 8:48 am
Location: West Wales
Organisation: George The Framer LLP
Interests: Gardening, design, electronic music, good food and beverages.
Contact:

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by Justintime »

Lawrieh,
I've started mixing the polyvine into the last coat of paint for that reason. Seems to work fine.
Justin George GCF(APF)
Insta: georgetheframer
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Final finish for hand painted frames..

Post by Not your average framer »

I've been mixing Polyvine varnish into other water based paints as well. I'm not talking about a lot, because it makes the other paint less opaque, but it get around some of the problems we have to face. Polyvine being an arcylic medium it can beef up the strength of the binder in the paint, it also appears to help with adhesion problems when hand finishing over some factory finishes, but some factory finishes appear to be polyurethane based and I've not had much success getting really solid adhesion on such finishes.

When distressing one colour of paint to show the contrasting colour underneath I like to use a coat of the Polyvine varnish between the two colours to act as a buffer to help to avoid the possibility of going all the way through both colours and showing the wood underneath, As most people already know, I live to do distressed finishes with a mixture of solvents on a piece of kitchen tissue and the polyvine varnish is a bit more resistant to these solvents and you have more time to stop before it's too late.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Post Reply