help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris object

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daveym
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help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris object

Post by daveym »

As some of you are aware, I tend to use the Ikea Ribba frames as I'm not a frame maker just designer whom makes decorative objects and prints so for me the Ribba frames work out cost effective for the end price I sell alot of frames for. The current frames used measure 25cm x 25cm external and 23cm x 23cm internal measurments with 25mm depth internally. I am trying to frame 18cm diameter circular plaster of paris type decorative ojects with a thickness of 2cm. It is one of the strongest gypsum based plasters & isn't a standard plaster of paris but can still damage if dropped as it's fairly heavy. It has a completely flat back so wondering how best to hang this permenantly within the centre of the frame so it remains in place. I have to also take into consideration when the courier handles these as they couldbe thrown around in the post.

If anyone could lend a hand as to the most appropriate method of hanging it would be appreciated.
Not your average framer
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by Not your average framer »

I can see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure if Ikea frames are particularly strong when it comes to fixing relatively heavy items inside the frame. No doubt cost is going to be a big thing, if you are producing items to sell at a profit. Is there any potential to replace the existing frames backing board with something substantial enough to adequately sopport the weight at a satisfactory added cost?

You may need to consider a little bit of constructing your own internal support to make this work, while still using your existing Ribba frame to make this work at a price that still makes sense and leaves you the necessary scope for profit.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
daveym
Posts: 139
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by daveym »

i think the 3mm backingboard on the frame would be strong enough to hold the plaster object. I did read a very old post on here about using a silicone foam on plaster. I wanted to have a patterned backing card behind the plaster but this certainly wouldn't be strong enough to hold the plaster object so I read someone mentioned cutting out a large enough area of the backing behind the object (so it was still hidden but large enough to apply glue through and glue directly to the backing board). I wondered if a hot glue gun or silicone foam would be more suitable. Maybe neither but this seemed a decent solution if I wanted a design printed on card behind the decorative plaster object.
JFeig
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by JFeig »

Are you casting these plaster "decorative items" yourself? If so, I would consider placing threaded studs into the plaster as part of the casting process. The piece can then be bolted to the backing board.
Jerome Feig CPF®
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daveym
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by daveym »

I'm not sure what you mean by threaded studs ito the cast? Yes I'm casting these myself but I've looked at studs and cannot see anything suitable. the thickest depthin some places of the circualr cast is approx 2cm whilst some areas are only cm so there is little depth to use a stud or the ones I can find, and even thoese don't look adequate for pressing into the cast whilst it's hardening to then screw a bolt onto. Do you have any pics of the type you mean? It would need to be no more than 2cm in length. Anything bigger won't work.
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by JFeig »

duplicated post
Jerome Feig CPF®
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JFeig
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by JFeig »

https://www.amazon.com/Phillips-Washer- ... B01H1QBVJ4

Since you are making multiples, I would suggest a templet made from 3 mm MDF to position the screws in a repeatable pattern. This templet (or a clean duplicate) can also be used to positions into the backing board. Make sure you do not reverse the templets front to back incorrectly so that the holes will line up. Attach a nut to the screw when in the templet and press the screw into the soft plaster to the proper depth. The nut will act a depth stop.
Jerome Feig CPF®
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daveym
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by daveym »

many thanks for the useful info there.I do understand but sayi bought the 16mm depth would I press this into the caste with the bolt level with the back of the cast and allow the screw to penetrate further into the caste or is the screw supposed to be level with the bolt and don't penetrate to farinto the caste. My only concern is ifthe screw goes to far down into the caste when the cast hardens and i try to remove this screw it could crack and also weaken the area around the bolt. I might bemissing something though? I have checked my backboard and it measures about 2mm then the backing card thickness is a further 2-3 mill so all in all there is already about 5mm thickness before the screw penetrates the plaster of paris object so I have about 15mm depth that I can go into the plaster with if required so guess either 16mm or 20mm screws are ok?
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by Not your average framer »

People bring Ikea frames into my shop asking if I can repair a frame because it's coming apart a the corners. These frames are popular because they are cheap and readily available, Unfortunately the corner joints are weak and the frames are not very durable, a thicker than normal backing board may be one way of strengthening the frame and also providing superior support for the heavy object inside.

Another thing that happens with Ikea frames is that many of them have thinner than normal glass and customers who buy items framed in these frames often find that the glass does not survive postage and they come to me to get new glass put in the frame. From my perspective it's useful business, but you do need to consider adding the necessary durability to allow for the extra weight.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't use these frames. Lots of people are using these frames, because the price makes good business sense. Just consider beefing up the backing board to provide something solid enough to support the weight long term without distorting the backing board over time and as a means of adding extra support the strength of the frame.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
JFeig
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Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by JFeig »

PVA glue and/or shredded fibers such as fiberglass can also be added to the plaster mix to add a bit more crack resistance.
You are now saying that the plaster is only 16 mm thick vs the original 20 mm. You can also grind the heads of the screws to reduce their height.

Set your mind to "this might work" vs "this won't work".
Jerome Feig CPF®
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Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
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Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: help with framing a relatively heavy plaster of paris ob

Post by Not your average framer »

Some very spot on advice there! If your wife, or girlfriend will let you have any old nylon stockings that are waiting to be thrown out. You can cut them up into about two inch squares and put them into a blender with some water that has been thickened up a little with just enough wall paper paste to increase the drag on the bits of stocking, so that the stocking can't be deflected by the blades of the blender and the blades will chop right through the stocking material. Don't leave the blender on for hardly any time at all, or the bits with become too small. The plaster of paris and PVA mix will penetrate through the weave of the stocking material and result in some added grip and strength.

PVA when mixed with plaster of paris may set much quicker than is ideal adding some starch paste, or even wall paper paste will extended the time taken for the plaster of paris and the PVA to set, but be careful not to add too much paste as this may allow cracks to appear of the surface as the plaster of paris is setting. I'm not all that convinced about setting screws into the plaster of paris, while the plaster of paris is setting and I would be much more inclined tp drill and tap the necessary fitting holes after the plaster of paris is well set, Afterwards I would apply aradite to the screw threads before inserting some short lengths of studding by hand only, so that the force exerted on the threads in the plaster of paris are not stressed.

It would be safer to not rely on drilling the holes too deep, but to create added security by just having a few extra lengths of the screw studding to spread the load across a larger number of fixings. How are the existing backing boards located within the frames, is there a spacer inside the frame to fill the space between the glass and the back? All of the Ikea frames I have seen have their backing board retained by some metal clips riveted onto the backing boards, there may be scope to substitute an alternative backing material and produce a much more professional looking result, without any significant added cost. Just a thought!

BTW, I'm sure many of us would love to see some pictures of some of your creations.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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