Double sided frame concerns....

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StevenG
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Double sided frame concerns....

Post by StevenG »

Good evening folks

I've got a map about 4x3 that the customer wants to see both sides. They want the frame to be reversible so that there's no 'real' front. They've chosen A&T 2376.3507 for both sides. All ok so far but does anyone have a preferred method of attaching the frames together - the only thing I can think of is to simply glue both sides and leave clamped for a while - my main concern with that is the obvious lack of getting the thing open in the future!!! (if ever needed)

Also, what about hanging. It's gonna be pretty heavy with 2 panes of glass etc and as both sides are the front where do I attach any hanging hardware?? I thought maybe attaching something to the sides of the finished piece? Leaving the string visible atop may become part of the final 'design' - and when I say design I mean I hope things work themselves out :?
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Not your average framer »

I forget where I saw this, but there was an example of such a frame where the two halves had been drilled and had small rare earth magnets fitted into the drilled holes so that when the two halves were brought together, they were held together by the magnets. I see little advantage in machining the mouldings down in depth to be a perfect distance between the pieces of glass on each side when the spacing of the sandwich is more easily asjusted to be a snug fit.

I would suggest that some method of providing an integral alignment feature to provide perfect alignment of the two halves as they are brought together, would be beneficial. If you can use a moulding with a wider rebate than most, perhaps a nice snug spacer would provide such an alignment feature, while the wider than normal rebate might prevent the edges of the front and rear mounts from being visible. I am led to understand that quite a lot of this sort of thing is done quite regularly in the USA.

Perhaps someone can come up with some relevant links to suitable information.
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Tudor Rose »

We’ve just finished two framed silk maps like this using rare earth magnets because we wanted to allow for opening the frames in the future if for example the glass got cracked. We made sure the glazed package was a good fit and sealed this with tape. Make sure to set in and glue the magnets well and leave the glue to go off properly before putting the frame together. As long as the magnets are carefully positioned there is no need to have any additional alignment feature. Just mind your fingers when you put the two sides together!
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Not your average framer »

Hello Jo,

I was just wondering if your double sided frame was fitted with any means for hanging the frame and if so how you sought to accomplish this.

Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Tudor Rose »

Yes of course Mark. They were very specific as the frames will be suspended from the ceiling away from the walls. For that reason they may not be what the OP is after as a solution. Additionally we had the complication that one map is landscape one side and portrait the other. It was an interesting problem solving exercise but amazing to do.
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by StevenG »

Tudor Rose wrote:Yes of course Mark. They were very specific as the frames will be suspended from the ceiling away from the walls. For that reason they may not be what the OP is after as a solution. Additionally we had the complication that one map is landscape one side and portrait the other. It was an interesting problem solving exercise but amazing to do.

Regardless of what the OP wanted (he's stupid anyway) I'd still be interested in the solution :lol:
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Tudor Rose »

Fair enough :lol:

We used our Hoffman Router to join the frames and then added the magnets, making sure to put some fairly close to each corner and then evenly spaced along each side. We then drilled holes through the uprights of the frames (when they were clamped together) and down away from the corners (a pillar drill would be easiest but a handheld would do the job) and then used stainless steel shackles through the holes. These come in a variety of sizes and can be a bit chunky if you go for the wrong ones, but these are yachting ones so a lovely finish and very smart looking. They are also easy enough for the customer to undo and change over to the spare holes for the one that is has both portrait and landscape orientations on opposite sides. The spare holes are then “filled” with a plug of the same moulding on one side (a tightish fit, but one that can be tapped out) which is also held in with a screw topped with a chrome domed top on the other. That’s the bit you probably don’t need to worry about if both sides of yours are the same orientations.

Our customer has hanging hooks in the ceiling and will run chain down, through the shackles and then back up to the hooks. Hope that helps.
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Tudor Rose »

The screw with chrome dome decorative top added which is helping to hold the plug in place in one of the spare holes.
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Abacus »

That’s fantastic work Jo

I wish we had a like button!
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by prospero »

I've tackled this problem in the past by by making a sealed sandwich. Back-to-back mounts with the two sheets of glass which is taped
around the outside to create a single unit which can be safely handled. Once you have this I've use a slip inside the frame to form a wide
rebate to conceal the tape. On the back there is a simple frame that drops in and spring clips or turns to hold the lot together. The simple
frame on the back can be made from the same slip or just same thin PSE timber. This give the clips something to bear on avoiding stress on the glass.
The beauty is, you don't need to make two frames. You have the option of taking it down to inspect the reverse side or taking the sandwich out,
flipping it over, putting all back together and back on the wall. The back side is now at the front and everything else is the same. :D

Needs a fairly deep rebate, but easier than trying to do two-faced frames. :wink:
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Tudor Rose »

Totally agree Prospero, that is an alternative and we've done similar ourselves many times before. These two maps though need to be viewed from both sides all the time as they will be hanging away from the walls so that people can walk around them. The internal sandwich is all taped together for ease of handling as this bit was completed before the frames were made.

As the maps the OP is framing are quite large, double sided frames would probably be safer than having the customer take the piece out to turn it and put it back in the frame.
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by prospero »

Gotcha. :yes: In that case magnets would be my choice. :D
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by poliopete »

I have made a few double sided frames over the years but never one requiring 24 square feet of glass :shock: The thought of flipping that around is keeping me awake at night and it's not even my problem :sweating:

Very best of luck with the job and much respect for taking it on :rock:
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Not your average framer »

Well done Jo,

That's really well thought out and if I not wrong, I suspect that the shackle option is quite an original solution.

Nice job. :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Tudor Rose »

One of the finished pieces.
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Not your average framer »

I would never have thought about using the shackles like that in a million years. After seeing the picture, I think it's an inspired choice and really looks great.
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by StevenG »

Hi Guys

Just thought I give everyone an update. I still haven't finished it (customer isn't in any hurry - that suits me :) )

I've added a few photos - the only real thing I'm looking advice on are the hanging options. The shackle idea is really good but I might use something else simply attached to the top of the frame - again I'm looking at a few fittings usually associated with boating - maybe something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AISI-316-Mar ... %7Ciid%3A1

The magnets work quite well, the 'finished' frame is a little heavy but I can easily lift the entire thing by only holding one side, I'd be quite confident that it'll not come apart but since there are small children in the family I've attached little steel supports underneath out of sight (I'll tidy these up before handing it over though). My question is .... Since the magnets do a good job at holding the two frames together and there's some support at the bottom would the two frame structure be able stable enough to allow the 'hangers' on the top - this would be ideal when flipping the frame around?

Any thoughts?

Thanks again for all the great advice previously :)
Steven
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by StevenG »

Just to clarify - I've spend a few hours and knocked up this artists impression of the proposed hanging solution. Bearing in mind there's several magnets holding the frames together and metal supports on the bottom, what's the opinion with hanging the frame from the top rail (is that the correct term). Structural wise is it doable? :)
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by vintage frames »

I think you've done a terrific job and with the extra support on the bottom edge, I see no reason not to use the hanging method you show. Obviously test it all out by hanging the frame and jiggling it about a lot to see if there's any movement. Maybe just make sure the screw-eyes are not out of proportion to the size of the frame profile.
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Re: Double sided frame concerns....

Post by Not your average framer »

I'm very encouraged by this thread. Prosperro, myself and too many others to mention have long been encouraging others too develop the creativity and willingness for forum members to develop and share their own ideas and ways of solving problems and this particular thread shows that so many forum members are doing just that.

It's also nice to see many so called newbies of not so long ago are now amoung those who are now confident to be passing on their own knowledge and helping todays newbies. Well done to all and long may it continue.
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