Breakout

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Breakout

Postby Ed209 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:03 pm

Just wondering if there is anything I can do to stop the bottom of some moulding breaking away on the bottom as far as I can see my Morso blades & bottom blades are all set correctly.
The breakout in the photo is slightly worse than normal it is normally about half that.Image


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Re: Breakout

Postby Justintime » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:09 pm

Try putting a piece of mountboard against the fences, between fences and moulding. The last cut cuts through the mountboard too. That helps.
I've also read putting some tape around the moulding before you cut the mitre. Anything so that the very last cut is not cutting the moulding with the very tip of the two blades.
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Re: Breakout

Postby prospero » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:31 pm

Some mouldings have a rounded back edge at the bottom which is unsupported. A tiny sausage of Plasticine jammed into
the corner of the fence and bed on the Morso might help.
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Re: Breakout

Postby Not your average framer » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:28 pm

Two things are happening here. The first thing is that the wood is giving way rather than being cut, this is a bit of a problem that you can encounter density variations in Obeche which allow problems to occur when cutting with a Morso. Ayous is like Obeche, but because it is grown in a difference climate the density is much better.

Unfortunately, the pressure has been on our moulding manufacturers since the 2008 credit crunch to avoid increasing prices too much and I'm guessing that this might not be helping with the quality of the wood. I'm not suggesting that the moulding suppliers in this country are responsible for this as so many mouldings are coming from overseas and manufacturers are under pressure to control their material costs.

You may have noticed that I recently had a thread looking for better quality Obeche mouldings, well I'm looking to spend more to avoid unnecessary wastage of mouldings and time while producing frames. Not everyone will share my thoughts on this, but I think that the money lost due to wastage on some mouldings will justify paying extra for better quality mouldings,

The second factor has since I started typing, been mentioned by Prosperro. His solution often works, but I prefer to not use problem mouldings after encountering problems and switch to something else for future requirements.
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Re: Breakout

Postby prospero » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:36 am

Unfortunately there are mouldings which are Morso-unfriendly. These are made for a specific market, that is the
mass produced, factory stuff. The price has to be keen which makes the mouldings attractive to the indy framer but
to get decent results you need a big bells'n'whistles double mitre saw you'll struggle. :|
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Re: Breakout

Postby Ed209 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:55 am

Anything that I now know is a problem I get chop, The extra cost vastly outweighs the touching up time.

Just wondering if double mitre is the way to go in light of less stable wood they are using these days. looks like most of them are around the 10k mark + dust extraction, noise & three phase required.

What are the 5727 Inmes IM-30 Single Mitre Saw with Air Clamps like as a complementary thing to the Morso?

Not had any success with the particular moulding in the photo with the use of mount card, tape or Plasticine packing, just looking at it is enough to cause breakaway :D
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Re: Breakout

Postby vintage frames » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:07 am

One idea would be to seat the moulding inside the R&H A296 profile. That would act as a cradle to protect the outer edges and corners from breaking out as you've shown. R&H will happily sell you 1 lenght.
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Re: Breakout

Postby vintage frames » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:48 pm

In fact, looking at your photo - it appears that the moulding has some sort of profile along its' back corner. That means the heel of the moulding has no support when being cut. If you really did want to continue with that moulding, then it would be good to mix up a bead of two- part wood filler, lay it along the inside corner of A296, then slide a piece of your moulding along A296 so as to leave an impression of the outside heel of your dodgy moulding. Then at least the moulding is fully supported.
Yes, if you had a double mitre saw then that problem is easily overcome. A single mitre saw is all very well until you swing it in the other direction and that's where errors can happen. Prospero has a clever arrangement of two single mitre saws permanently fixed, so speak to him.
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Re: Breakout

Postby Ed209 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:01 pm

This is the profile
Attachments
A076.jpg
A076.jpg (27.84 KiB) Viewed 439 times
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Re: Breakout

Postby vintage frames » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:25 pm

Yes, I'm afraid it's always going to break out on that heel unless fully supported. That moulding is obviously aimed at the contract market where production saws are used.
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Re: Breakout

Postby featurepiece » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:36 pm

Support from strips of mountboard or plasticine have worked for me in the past - obviously sharp blades are a must too. Actually, on a similiar note I had noticed that a few of my usual mouldings were starting to chip/flake at the back quite a lot so I fixed that by moving the Morso blades forward a few mm & that worked a treat.

But in reality, these days when I get some moulding that is troublesome I don't bother trying too much anymore - I just dump it and kick it off the display board :) Life's too short I say!
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Re: Breakout

Postby Not your average framer » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:35 pm

featurepiece wrote:these days when I get some moulding that is troublesome I don't bother trying too much anymore - I just dump it and kick it off the display board :) Life's too short I say!


The voice of reason and of experience!

I do the same.

History is full of example of people who repeat the same mistake, expecting the result is going to be different next time. Learn from the first experience and never use that moulding again. Problem solved!
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