gesso

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Compomouldings
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gesso

Post by Compomouldings »

Hi
Any ideas on how to slow the cooling of gesso ie to stop it drying to fast once on the frames!

Thanks
Mark
vintage frames
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Re: gesso

Post by vintage frames »

The strength and quality of gesso is determined by the ratio of glue to whiting, and the water added is only a solvent which evaporates on drying.
So if you want to keep your gesso wet on the frame, then spray it lightly with some water from a plant sprayer. The water will not affect the composition of the gesso. But please tell us why you want to slow down the drying.
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Compomouldings
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Re: gesso

Post by Compomouldings »

Hi when we apply the gesso to the frame a crack appears very shortly in the corner join. (within 5 minutes)

I thought it may be drying to quick.........or maybe you may have some other ideas!
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Re: gesso

Post by Not your average framer »

The significant factor here is the fact that the gesso is cracking at the corner joint and note that this problem is not occurring where there is no joint, something is happening where the joint is. Unfortunately, there are a few possibilities to be illiminated to find out what's the problem is caused by.

I suspect that it has something to do with the joint itself, the joint needs to be adequately glued and fixed, plus the glue needs to be well set prior to applying the bole and gesso, You might be well advised to discuss your choice of glue, with those we make their own gessoed frames on a regular basis to find out how they do this.

I think someone like Vintage Frames will know what to do to fix this problem, more that most of the rest of us.
Mark Lacey

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Re: gesso

Post by vintage frames »

As long as your corner joint is secure and well closed, then gesso will happily split and crack if the RSG is too strong. The formula I use and find very reliable is -
RSG - 40gm
Water - 660ml
Brandy - 2 teaspoons.
After melting, take say 400ml of hot RSG and add to 400gm of whiting. Leave it aside for an hour or so then warm it up again for use.
Another thought is - are you using some sort of glue on the corners that might have overflowed onto the surface and causing some sort of resist to the gesso. Perhaps make sure the wood in the corners is clean, and it's also a good idea to prime the wood first with a coat of warm RSG.
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Re: gesso

Post by JFeig »

A little (1-2%) linseed oil or glycerin will add to the flexibility of a gesso Rx.
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Re: gesso

Post by vintage frames »

Following on from this discussion, here are two frames I've been gesso-ing.
IMG_2869.JPG
IMG_2869.JPG (564.75 KiB) Viewed 6267 times
The frames are cut from pine wood as I prefer the weight this gives to the finished frame. After a size coat of neat RSG, the frames were sprayed with a gesso mixed to the previous formula and after 24 hours to dry, there are no cracks, splits or pin-holes.
I could have brushed on the gesso but using a spray gun is much quicker - two goods coats of gesso and a quick squirt around for luck.
The next photo shows the frames after sanding, I use a 180 grit to level the gesso and a 320 grit to smooth to a finish.
IMG_2871.JPG
IMG_2871.JPG (399.23 KiB) Viewed 6267 times
And - in case anyone's interested or to irritate if you're now rolling your eyes, here's the frame with a string of compo beading added.
IMG_2872.JPG
IMG_2872.JPG (283.02 KiB) Viewed 6267 times
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Re: gesso

Post by Not your average framer »

Do you produce the compo beading yourself? If so that's an impressive achievement.
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Re: gesso

Post by poliopete »

Excellent examples :clap: :clap: thank you for posting :D and please show pictures of the finished frames.

Peter.
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Re: gesso

Post by vintage frames »

Yes I do produce all the compo myself. It's a pretty straight forward operation but a bit full-on where after you've done a few dozen castings, there is little left of the will to live.
I may timidly post a photo of the finished frames - there are so many opportunities left to muck them up.
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Re: gesso

Post by Not your average framer »

As you probably have already guessed, when I need to add a running pattern such as a shot, or rope twist linear pattern along a moulding, I almost invariably will be using one of the pre-manufactured decorative wood strips from Rose and Hollis.

Obviously, I can cut each stip to fit the frame, do trial fit and when I'm ready glue the strip in place. However, I am wondering how you compo strip is made up and applied. If I had to do this it would probably be moullded as short strips which would be butted together in place on the frame and joins would have to be concealed.

Can I be a little nosey and ask how it is done?
Mark Lacey

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Re: gesso

Post by vintage frames »

Thanks for asking. The basic process is to press warmed compo into a mould, squish it down hardish in a book press and leave it to cool for a few minutes. The moulded compo can then be released from the mould and the desired decoration cut away from the excess.
At this stage the compo is still very flexible, so by brushing the back of the ornament with some diluted PVA, it can be easily stuck down onto the frame.
For practical reasons, the castings are usually 12" in length - ie the moulds are this size - and are laid down in strips. You genarally don't have to worry about the joins. If they are very obvious then a finger rub with some thickened gesso usually does the trick.
Some framemakers are lucky to have a selection of original boxwood moulds. I don't. Instead I've built up a library of patterns by taking castings from original antique frames ( usually customer's own ). These are either resin or polyurethane rubber and held in a wooden former to mimic a boxwood mould.
Heating the compo used to be a bit messy with steam baths, these days a small microwave is much cleaner.
AS you pointed out, the easy way to get beading is from R&H and if you're so sensible as to own a circular or band saw, then you can cut away the decoration and add it to your frame.
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Re: gesso

Post by Not your average framer »

That's what I assumed. I do the occasional repair job, which rarely amounts to anything that needs more than an impression taken with a bit of Plastiscine and some two part filler. Following my stroke I probably won't be doing anything all that fiddly as my manual dexterity might not be as good as it used to be.
Mark Lacey

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Re: gesso

Post by vintage frames »

And here's a look at the finished frames and then it's off to the framers who commissioned them -
IMG_2884.JPG
IMG_2884.JPG (341.27 KiB) Viewed 6139 times
IMG_2885.JPG
IMG_2885.JPG (421.14 KiB) Viewed 6139 times
These frames have been watergilded with 23ct gold, distressed by several degrees, burnished on the top rail and then repeatedly toned until everything looked just right.
I don't suppose gilding is of much interest to the many on this forum - which is a pity. Yes, the full gilding shown can be a bit of a job but when gilding is applied as a highlighter to many handfinishes then it can dramatically increase the value of the work. Of course the big thing or, the very Big Thing about gilding is - how it's finished. Laying down the leaf is perfectly straight forward but toning down the bright new glimmer is where all the subtlety and judgement comes into play. And it makes a day's work a lot more interesting.
Anyone can gild. It's not hard. There are books like Practical Gilding but they do tend to take a full orchestra to a simple tune. Best is to get some one to one instruction.
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Re: gesso

Post by prospero »

Very Nice. :D :clap:
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Re: gesso

Post by poliopete »

Skillful work and looks great :clap: :clap: thanks for posting.

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Re: gesso

Post by Justintime »

That's amazing!
Just because it was the original post query, I have to mention that there is a tiny crack in the inside of the top corner... sorry Dermot, it adds to the aged look but its just ...oh I'll shut up now!
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Re: gesso

Post by vintage frames »

Ahh - you noticed. Of course it was meant to do that. Special feature of that gesso mix.
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Re: gesso

Post by Not your average framer »

I Love it.......Looks really great!

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Mark Lacey

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Re: gesso

Post by Bertie »

vintage frames wrote: Tue 26 Mar, 2019 4:39 pm AS you pointed out, the easy way to get beading is from R&H and if you're so sensible as to own a circular or band saw, then you can cut away the decoration and add it to your frame.
These are really lovely looking frames. Definitely something to aspire to.
May I ask, why did you choose to make the beading from compo if you can get it from R&H say?

I tried to make some compo from scratch not so long ago. A truly harrowing experience.
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