The Framers Forum

Hi guys newbie question hoping you can help,
I’m having a few teething problems with my secondhand cassese cs79 underpinner. I’ve only had it a short while and I’ve not used it a lot as I’m just learning - it’s been working fine with the partly used cartridge it came with, but when I tried to put a new (full unused cassette) cartridge in today the machine lights up suggesting that it’s fired a wedge but doesn’t and I’m not sure why?
I put the nearly used cartridge back in it works fine and also works with another part used cartridge it came with too, the problem seems to be with any new full cartridge both the ones that it came with and the ones I have recently bought. Any ideas where I’m going wrong?

Thanks in advance Debbie

Debbie

It could be caused by the wedge slider (the part that is attached to the pull cord) sticking in its slot due to dirt/grime, if so spray some wd40 on the slider and work it back and forth to clean
or
possibly down to a weak cartridge spring which no longer has sufficent tension to pull a full cartridge forward into the wedge block.

Mark

Many thanks Mark

I’ve just cleaned area as advised it was very mucky from previous owners use, sprayed with wd40 so looks a lot better now but still not firing with new wedge cartridges - I’ve just purchased a new spring from you and watched a YouTube how to change said spring. May need alittle guidance from yourself (but hopefully I can sort)

Kind regards debbie

Debbie

Changing the spring on a Cs79 is a little bit of a faff so if you have any issues or are unsure how to go about fitting it then give me a call my mobile number is on my websites contact page.
Thanks for the order!

Mark

I've had this problem recently with a CS88. New cartridges won't work, but an old one does.

On close inspection the 'bad' cartridges have somehow got chewed up at the feed end and once that happens they
will not have it at all. Bit of a faff, but if you have a working cartridge you can take the v-nails out of the bad one
and refill it

Thankyou for advise it’s really appreciated - I’m going to have a go at both methods as a way of learning how to - I cannot seem to get any full cartridge to work (have tried the ones that came with the machine and new ones I recent bought from Simonart too) so assume it’s the spring causing the problem. I’ve just ordered a new spring from mark so the fun will start tomorrow learning how to change it!!

Kind regards debbie

This can be a very common problem with both the CS-79 and the CS-88. As far as I know their peumatic machines have a different size of spring to feed the wedges forward in the cartridge and don't seem to have the same problem. The friction between the wedges and the inside faces of the plastic cartridges tend to restrain the wedges moving forward as well as they should under the pressure from the cartridge feed spring.

This happens all the time on my CS-88, if I am using 12mm, or 15mm wedges and this has been the case ever since I bought the machine whem new some years ago and it's still the same now. As a result, I do not use any wedges larger than 10mm, just to avoid this problem. Older Cassesse manual machines never had this problem and my first CS-88 did not have this problem, but my later machine is not quite the same design as the earlier one and it is my understanding that the later design having this problem when using larger than 10mm wedges are fairly common.

Also when using a new cartridge for the first time, I always make sure that the wedges are properly pushed fully forward in the cartridge, because I often have found that this is not always the case. Inspite of all this, I am not unhappy with my CS-88, in fact I am particular pleased to own what I have found to be an excellent underpinner, which is also very easy to work on if I need to carry out any maintenance.

Hi guys,
Thankfully we have eventually got my underpinner working with all my new cartridges

It seemed a strange problem as it worked with part-used cartridges but not new full cartridges
My inexperience was to blame
We tried a few methods - taking some wedges out of a new cartridge to see if that helped, changing the wedge pusher spring, cleaning internal parts etc all good learning but did not solve the problem.
Turns out my inexperience with underpinners was to blame. After eliminating everything else we went back to the beginning and discovered by accident that with new cartridges they just needed an extra gentle push for it to sit right in the slot
Thankyou to everyone for you help much appreciated debbie

.....Or as they say in the trade, "Percussive Maintenance".

I was given a very good tip a while ago in relation to Cassese cartridges which you may find helpful. Keep the white or yellow 'pushers' from inside the cartridges when you've used a cartridge, and insert an extra one into a part used cartridge. This helps to maintain forward pressure on the wedges to move towards the end of the cartridge and seems to help with using up the last few wedges in the cartridge, eliminating waste. It was a fantastic help on my older Cassese CS1 and I still use the method on my new pneumatic machine.

Best wishes
Jonathan

I use a short piece of dowel I keep handy by the underpiner, as the cartridge gets used up the spring effect is reduced and the last 10-15mm worth of wedges can jam or just not leave the cartridge. The dowel allows the spring pressure to be maintained. Just inset the dowel in end the cartridge.

This has been a common problem with Cassesse wedge Cartridges for years. My CS-79 when I first started My business did not have this problem at all, But I got the chance to upgrade to a second hand CS-88, which was nicely worm in and only exhibited problems towards the end of the wedges remaining in the cartridge and I just pulled the plastic cord thing out a bit and gave in a twang to push the wedges forward. Putting a new spring into the this CS-88 did nothing to improve this.

Later I had some problems with this CS-88 and needed to replace certain parts and sorting this out was taking too long and Simons offered me a new CS-88 to be paid for over 5 months as since I was falling behind with my customers orders I went for this. Ironically I finished sorting out the older CS-88 a couple of days after the new machine arrived. However, the new machine was not exactly the same design in it's mechanism and was quite a tight fit when inserting the wedges.

Right from the start this machine has never liked 12mm, or 15mm wedges. Because the the extra friction in the cartridges with these larger wedges, the feed spring is just not strong enough to push these wedges forward to fill the gap left by the last one the be used. There is nothing to be done about it, except not to use 12mm and 15mm wedges and this was the result with a brand new machine which was straight from the factory. However, I really like the CS-88, it is a strong well made machine which is built to last and very straight forward to sort out if any thing goes wrong.