Stretcher bar sizes?

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Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by +Rafe+ » Wed 15 May, 2019 4:09 pm

Hi all,

I have a client who is looking to have two canvases stretched and framed. I have very little experience other than a workshop course and framing pre-stretched canvases.

I am trying to source the right size and probably type, bars for each and struggling with know what to order. I have been looking at Lion and can't seem to find a matching size, I have been looking at their premium range...

Any thoughts?

The image size of each canvas is -
- 595 mm x 395 mm
- 850 mm x 650 mm

Thanks

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by featurepiece » Wed 15 May, 2019 4:58 pm

If you can't find the exact sizes you need there's always the option of losing a little of the image so it'll work with the closest smaller length (if you know what I mean & customer permitting of course). Or get yourself from stretcher bar type moulding and cut it to size - the only thing is there's no option for wedges to retighten the canvas in the event of sagging etc. Those sizes aren't that big so I wouldn't worry anyway :)

Something like this would work ..

https://www.qualitywoodmouldings.com/pr ... tcher-bar/

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Justintime » Wed 15 May, 2019 5:25 pm

This is who someone recommended the other day..
https://birdanddavis.com/

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by +Rafe+ » Thu 16 May, 2019 9:02 am

Thanks both!

I saw the post about customer stretcher bars just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

Have a good day all.

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by prospero » Thu 16 May, 2019 9:55 am

Stretcher bar sizes have always been a pain. Off the shelf they come in 1" increments up to a certain size and then 2", which is
fine until you get a non-standard or metric size.

You have three options:

Get bars cut and routed to size.
https://www.harrismoorecanvases.co.uk/p ... -supports/
Superb quality, but more expensive.

Use solid bars which you can make yourself but no adjustment.

Use one of the comprise systems which you can adjust. Wessex STM0 is nice to use. The bigger 2-way one is a bit awkward.
You do have to cut your own wedges for the corners and getting the right thickness plywood is a bit tricky. :roll:
There is also a knack to using it.
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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by +Rafe+ » Thu 16 May, 2019 10:23 am

Thanks Prospero for the added detail and recommendation, thats really helpful.

I have only seen a picture of the work until the lady drops it off, the next hurdle to overcome is the small amount of excess material the one canvas seems to have, looks to be 25-30mm. :Slap:

Also looking at Arrow T50 Cordless Staple Gun - T50DCD to save my hands that I believe Justintime recommend...

Thanks again

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Justintime » Thu 16 May, 2019 10:54 am

I wouldn't trust any measurements that a customer gives, til its on the table in front of me..
I'd still recommend the Arrow stapler, its been great so far, saves the wrists..

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by +Rafe+ » Thu 16 May, 2019 11:05 am

Of course and that was my caveat to my estimate I gave for the job. :D I also pointed out the possible issue with not having enough excess material.

Glad you are still fan of the stapler, my hands can be a bit stiff at times with my MS. Do you recommend an specificities size staples for canvas stretching?

Cheers!

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Justintime » Thu 16 May, 2019 1:53 pm

Yes, I picked the Arrow T50 staples, 5/16" /8mm stainless steel corrosion resistant. It's a while since I did the research into staples, there were even better types of metal for a lot more money. The size works for me.

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Not your average framer » Thu 16 May, 2019 4:26 pm

They are not particularly all that different from off the shelf sizes. If you've got a band saw with a tilting table , you can extend the edges of the cut away sections with a pencil and as if got an electric scroll saw, I can cut out end end between the band saw cuts without any problem. I probably could just about manage it with my coping saw as well, but I would find it a lot easier with the scroll saw.

Not all of us would go for doing this, but I would as I've already bought the equipment and after buying the equipment, it would be silly not to use it. You might be surprised how often some of these things come in useful. The main secret is good marking out and a well set up band saw that produes straight parallel cuts when cutting against the fence.

I frequently make new corner wedges to replace ones that have fallen out and got lost. My equipment is set up and more, less ready to roll. A bit of waste out of the bit, set the fence to the right distance and your set to go. If you are geared up to do these things and can be quick, you can charge a proper hourly rate for even just five minutes of work. Just do the sums and work out how much a proper hourly rate is for five minutes, it makes good sense!
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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by +Rafe+ » Tue 21 May, 2019 11:34 am

Many thanks NYAF, I wish I had the equipment to do this and quite frankly the space. Brilliant insight thank you.

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Not your average framer » Tue 21 May, 2019 1:17 pm

When I first started my business, the town in which I am based was quite busy and lots of people from surrounding areas used to shop here, as the most local location with a range of shops. This is not how it is now. The town is full of ladies hairdressers and estate agents, plus various businesses, which are to some degree somewhere between a hobby and a real business. There used to be a lot more summer business from the tourists as well.

So, I have to sometimes have an edge with my purchasing costs, to compete in what can be a difficult market to maintain worthwhile profits, when things like customer size stretcher bars, which are natural quite a lot more expensive than standard sizes, are going to take a big chunk out of whats left available as my profit margin, considering the price that I can get for the overall job.

There's not a lot of point for me to gear up to make stretcher bars from scratch, but adapting sizes that readily available from a supplier that I already need to place an order with save me money on both the item and the carriage. So since and competitor is likely to be basing their price upon using custom sized stretcher bars and I can get quotes for those as well, I have significant xcope for profit that the competitor does not have.

This approach obviously won't make as much sense for businesses located in economically better favoured locations where higher running costs will swallow up any advantage in doing this. As a result, some of us will do the sums and find that this makes no sense. My business is not like many other framing businesses, but I know how to function in a different business environment to many others and there may be a few who will find some of my solutions might be relavent for them as well.
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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Davie000 » Tue 21 May, 2019 1:39 pm

One way is 40x30 timber mitred to the correct size then a slot cut across the mitres and insert a piece of ply to allow you to open up the mitres, once the canvas is on the either screw or nail in position can be a fiddle though, dead stretcher is another way and can get good results depending on the canvas its self, put enough tension on the canvas but not so much that you bow the bars, if neither of these suit you you can just buy the stretcher bars that you cut to size Larson or Simons etc. This business would be a doddle if not for them pesky customers. :giggle:

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Not your average framer » Tue 21 May, 2019 1:50 pm

Davie000 wrote:This business would be a doddle if not for them pesky customers. :giggle:
If the job is a professional one, what reason has a pesky customer have to complain? You're method using standard stretcher bar profiles sounds like a reasonable solution to me and for certain businesses this could well be the right solution.
Mark Lacey

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Davie000 » Tue 21 May, 2019 1:56 pm

Or frame up the canvas in standard off the shelf stretches and give them a felt tip pen to fill in the gap...job done! :lol:

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by +Rafe+ » Tue 21 May, 2019 1:58 pm

Felt tip pens, wood filler, sellotape / masking tape ... are all part of my premium service! :D

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by +Rafe+ » Mon 01 Jul, 2019 2:49 pm

Hi all,

Thank you for all the comments. I now have the clients work and getting around to getting it done. I am a little concerned about the amount, or lack of, excess material I have to staple to the stretcher bars and keen for any advice...

The image size of the canvas is 795mm x 600mm with about 36 - 41mm of excess material - see pictures
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_e93.jpg
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_e93.jpg (320.64 KiB) Viewed 348 times
I mentioned to her when we met that I might need to come in onto the image to have room to staple to the bars, we agreed that she would be happy to loose 25mm. However, as you can see from the picture, this amount would then distort the signature in the bottom right corner....grrrr!

The canvas will eventually be framed, she hasn't decide on a style yet but feels a tray frame is likely to be her choice.

I have only done 3 canvas stretches so far and all have been straight forward, standard stretcher bars (this isn't - i don't think??), plenty of excess material, one was standard wrap the others were gallery, so feeling a bit nervy with this one :shock:

Thank you in advance all, I appreciate any guidance.

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Justintime » Mon 01 Jul, 2019 5:49 pm

If she's thinking to tray frame it, then it would be good to wrap some of the work around the sides, gallery wrapped. I think the signature can be tight up to the bottom corner. If half of the sides show work, you shouldn't see the rest if you keep the shadow gap small enough? That should give you enough for a Standard Lion's stretcher bar.
Difficult without having it in front of me to choose bar sizes, but somehow I always find a way to use their's.

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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by prospero » Tue 02 Jul, 2019 1:14 am

That's plenty to staple to. You don't need to actually 'stretch' the canvas. With a painted canvas you should avoid
deforming the canvas as much as is possible. The ideal situation is to fix the canvas so it is flat and doesn't flap.
No need to get it 'drum tight'. :lol:
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Re: Stretcher bar sizes?

Post by Justintime » Tue 02 Jul, 2019 10:07 am

I've been advised never to use pliers on a painted canvas, easy to damage the work, as prospero said.
I can recommend the Arrow rechargeable stapler, it makes the job a lot easier!
Just remember to square up the frame and make sure its square when you finish. If you're going to use a float tray, there's no tolerance for an out of square stretcher frame (I've just been in a fight with a very cheap prestretched canvas frame from an art shop, absolute rubbish, totally out of square and it wont square up with keys.. :head: )

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