Fixing objects invisibly

[cleaver]

Hi All,

May I get some advice on fixing objects when they can’t be tied invisibly, please.

The two jobs I’m attempting are some ornate fountain pen nibs, and the other job is some decorative tea spoons.

I’m still in the ‘doing stuff for friends & family’ phase, and both individuals are not too bothered about the technique being reversible, as the items are purely decorative, and not considered to be valuable.

However, I would like to stick to the ‘do no harm’ rule good framers generally live by. So would there be a silicon (for instance) I could use that would do the job without damaging the objects? (I might be barking up the wrong tree with silicon, and I'm happy to be corrected.)

These items might be fixed to fabric (e.g. velvet) as the background, so it’d be great if the fixing method worked on multiple surfaces.

I’d be very grateful for specific product ideas please – and any general pointers on this.

All the George Best,

Paul

[Justintime]

Hey Paul,
Normal silicone will offgas. There is, apparently, a water based sealant, but I have yet to find it/found other ways to complete a job.
Clear film, like the one sold by Lion's, used by artists for wrapping mounted work ready for sale, can be cut into thin strips and fed around the object and through slits in the back of the mountboard behind the object. This is virtually invisible, I have used it once or twice, you really had to know it was there to see it. (People talk of Mylar, I think this is the same, happy to be corrected.)
Some of the mountboard manufacturers produce a suede mouontboard, or you could fabric glue some velvet to your back mountboard and the spacers, to give a seamless look to it.
Have you come across "The Complete Guide to Shadowboxes and Framing Objects" by James Miller? Its jam packed with illustrations, examples and detailed instructions, well worth a look.
Justin

[cleaver]

Many thanks as ever, JT - and that book sounds like a must.

I need to find out about Mylar, too. Going to have some concert programmes to do soon, and I've heard Mylar mentioned very favourably a few times on here.

Hope you're well, mate.

P.

[Not your average framer]

Mylar is a brand name used by the American. manufacturer Du Pont, the generic name for the same product is known as Polyester.. Not all clear plastic films are necessarily polyester and other plastic films often have different properties, so beware.

One of the important properties of Polyester is that it is chemically inert and therefore not able to chemically contaminate, or react with the items that you are wishing to fix in place within a frame. However, that is not the only consideration, when using Polyester for object framing. First, it is a bit glossy and does not look very invisible against a matt surface. Second, the thickness of your Polyester will need to be adequate for the weight of the object you wish to hold in place.

I also use a number of different lengths of Polyester garment price tag fixings of various lengths. Unlike the usual nylon garment price tag fixings, the polyester ones are much more transparent and therefore much more invisible. They are also much thinner than straps cut from Polyester film and a lot more difficult to see within a frame, My range of garment price tag fixings go from very short in length to really rather long ones and I have these in both fine and standard gauge versions.

Even having Polyester film and garment price tag fixing available does not mean that you will have the most suitable way of fixing every type of object that you need to frame in place. Some items will tax your ingenuity from time to time and you may need be inventive and create another solution your self, or even pick some one else's brains. There's no one size fits all solution, but we all get better at most things with experience.

[cleaver]

Many thanks, Mark.

In the pen knibs example, what are your thoughts on dabs of clear silicone? Pen knibs are so small, I can’t see how any sort of film wouldn’t show.

My intention is to mount the knibs on mountboard, not material (the spoons will be).

Does such (inert/ph neutral etc.) silicone even exist?

Hope the recovery is going well.

[David]

There are some non acetic silicones that are designed for use with electrical components like this one from RS Components:

RS PRO White Silicone Sealant Paste 310 ml Cartridge
Neutral Cure, Non-Corrosive

Make sure it's non acetic there are a number with very similar names.

[prospero]

You can get copper wire that is so fine that it's almost invisible. It's very strong though. It's used for winding electrical
coils - transformers, solenoids, etc. It is covered with lacquer to insulate it so it won't corrode or cause corrosion on things
it touches. The lacquer also darkens it. You can thread it through a needle. Useful for some objects.

[Not your average framer]

I am not personally a big fan of using silicone sealants / adhesives, because reversibility is not an easy straight forward operation if this should be necessary at a later date and because some types of silicone can react with the alkaline buffering agents in mountboard, or even cause discolouration of the coloured facing papers of the mountboard.

Having said that there will always be framers who choose to use it for reasons of practicality and convenience and customers who will be primarily price oriented and really don't care about much else. There are times when conservation framing is of importance, but we live in a world of a commercial and practical realities as well. There's no doubt that fully reversible methods are preferable, but no one is telling you that other methods are not available.

Enamelled copper wire is available on reels of various sizes in various different wire gauges from various electronic materials suppliers, and as Properro says it has a good degree of strength. It also can be twisted together behind the mountboard on which items are to be fixed and if you chose the gauge of wire to be most appropriate for the items to be fixed, the size of the wire used can be less obvious in different situations.

It is good to be knowledgeable about the options available, but ultimately the framer is there to enable the customer to make a meaningfully informed choice. with the options that the particular framer is willing to offer. I don't use silicone at all in my workshop, as I don't think it costs me any more to use fully reversible methods, so would only ever offer silicone if there was no other viable alternative.

[poliopete]

Years ago when when I was framing in our very busy shop and ignorance was bliss I used the "leader" line from my fly fishing kit for most object framing. These days it is not advised for various reasons but back then it worked for me.

Like your good self, and more recently, I have tried to obtain a copy of Jim Millers book and save a few squids at the same time - without success. If you are serious about framing and want to offer a full and comprehensive service to your customers then owning a copy is a must and would be money well spent.

In the meantime, you can learn a great deal about object framing by researching old threads on here and on the "Grumble".
For example, old posts from Roboframer can be very helpful re object framing, but be prepared to go back a long way and some of his "links" don't always come up. Jim Miller is a regular on the Grumble and has posted a wealth of helpful information. As well as our "oracle" and the Cove Box Designer feature there is a fella on the net who's name I can't remember at the moment he looks like Harry Corbet from Sooty and Sweep) and frames "Little ted" and is worth a look.
Someone will know I'm sure.

As you can see I am not ashamed to use all this as a resource

I just wish I could get up as early as Prospero, 3.09 am

Peter.

[Not your average framer]

Hi Peter,

The name you are trying to remember is Dave Woolass.



All the best,
Mark

[cleaver]

Many thanks again, guys.

Great tip (as ever) Prospero about the enamelled copper wire. What gauge(s) do you advise I get to kick off - presumably the finest out there for the pen nibs?

[prospero]

I just wish I could get up as early as Prospero, 3.09 am

What you mean 'get up'. Not gone to bed yet. I was cooking a killer Spanish omelette as it happens.

[Steve N]

put some photos of the nibs and spoons so we can have a look and suggest ways of attaching them

[Not your average framer]

To be completely truthful, I'm would not find it the easiest job to frame pen nibs myself and I'm not completely sure how I would want to fixthe nibs in place. As the nibs a likely to be quite small, I'm not too keen on holding them in place with copper wire, because this would not only be far too visible, but orientating and lining up the nibs probably needs a bit more positive control than obtainable with copper wire, or some kind of invisible thread.

I am therefore thinking that because nibs usually would have a small round hole in the middle of the nib, I'm thinking that I would be inclined to pin these nibs in place using a gimp pin, which is similar to a tin tack apart from being much smaller. To be able to do this, it would be necessary to position a piece of 6mm MDF behind the mountboard used as a display surface behind the nibs.

I'm quite good at controlling how hard I tap in these gimp pins, so it would not trouble me, but this would need to do done with care and the nibs would have to be oriented and positioned just right. However this would look great because the round head of the pin is black and kind of looks a lot like the dark area inside the hole in the nib.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Challenge-Gimp ... LER/172881

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GIMP-PINS-TACK ... LIES/14251

The gimp pins that I use are the Challenge ones and I know what size heads these have, but looking at the second link I'm not sure if the heads will be the same size.

https://www.jhconklin.net/blog/2014/11/ ... nd-welting

[poliopete]

Thank you Mark, that's the man, Dave Woolass, interesting videos but reminds me of "Watching with mother"

Peter, next time you are cooking a killer Spanish omelette please give me a shout and I will join you and bring some Rioja after all we are almost neighbours

[Not your average framer]

We'll all be meeting at Peter's cafe next!

[prospero]

Sticky foam tape is a possibility. It's very strong and long-lasting. Cut little squares and grab a pair of tweezers.

[cleaver]

Thanks again, folks...plenty to chew on.

[Not your average framer]

including the omlette?

[cleaver]