Mount Boarder Sag/Gap

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jonbon
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Mount Boarder Sag/Gap

Post by jonbon »

Hi,

I am relatively new to framing and have incurred an issue with a large frame that I made. Fortunately it is only for my brother so it isn't a 'real' client and I am able to solve the issue with no pressure.

The frame is about 1000mm x 700mm and it's been on his wall for about two months now, but there is a gap that has formed at the top and bottom of the picture where it meets the mount. The border is about 50/60mm, backing board 2mm and moulding 33mm x 25mm approx.

Could this issue be due to the backing board not being flush enough up to the back of the picture and mount? Or could it be something to do with the tension from where it has been hung? Or something else? I used X2 regular T-Hinges, X3 at most to memory as it was weighty paper.
And I use 'Hang-its' from Lion as opposed to D-Rings as i thought they look neater. I wonder if this causes unnecessary stress on everything inside the moulding.

Any pointers would be much appreciated
Thank you
Jonbon
Not your average framer
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Re: Mount Boarder Sag/Gap

Post by Not your average framer »

If there is any unnecessary stress on the backing board you may well get some clues by looking at thr backing tape for any distortion, or rippling where the tape straddles the gap between the frame and the backing board. You may just be unfortunate with this particular framing job, but here's a few things to consider just in case.

The first thing that I would want to know, would be is there a dampness, or humidity problem creating this distortion where this is hanging. Even if there is no apparent dampness, is the picture hanging above a heat source, or on a wall where heat is generated by a chimney, even if the chimney is in an adjoining room. It is quite easy to generate condensation problems, if the necessary temperature difference is there to create it.

I would assume that you mounted it with an undermount behind the artwork, as well as the backing board. If you did, then even if the backing board distorted for any reason, hopefully the undermount would still stay flat. Please don't take this as aimed at you because it is not, but I'm based in Devon, which is one of the dampest counties in England as has a lot of old houses, which were only ever kept dry with fires and stoves burning all the time. In modern times and more modern methods of heating houses. Damp old houses are quite a problem and there are times when 2mm backing boards don't always stay flat enough in some houses.

It is not uncommon for me to provide additional stiffness to the backing by inserting between the undermount and the backing board a piece of 5mm think foamboard. This does not add any noticeable weight, but it does add considerable extra stiffness. The fact that this problem has occurred, does not necessarily imply that you have done something wrong, but it would be worth looking in to this case to see if you can identify why this happened and if there is anything worth learning from this. If you are doing everything correctly, this could be just a freak event that happens for no good reason.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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prospero
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Re: Mount Boarder Sag/Gap

Post by prospero »

Hi and Welcome Jonbon. :D

First of all this has nothing to do with the frame or hangings. Its a thing that everybody has had at one time or other.

It could be the paper (you say it's weighty) has expanded do to local changes in humidity, or the back has done likewise, or both.

50mm margin is a wee bit skimpy for a work this size and you don't say how far the paper extends under the window mount edge. If it is near
to the frame rebate then it could have got restricted and if it can't got out it will go wavy.

If the picture is hung on a wall that is only slightly damp (recently plastered or an exterior wall) moisture will migrate into the frame.
Especially if the bottom of the frame is tight to the wall which means no airflow behind the frame.

This is the most likely explanation, but I can't suggest a cure without seeing the thing. I know a few sneaky tricks..... :wink:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
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Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Mount Boarder Sag/Gap

Post by Not your average framer »

The force generated by either paper, or board that has been subject to enlargement due to humidity is quite considerable and it's abliity to push things like backing boards out of the way should not be underestimated. While we may hope that when the humidity has dried out that things will go back to as they were before being affected by the humidity, it does not always work like that, sometimes is does, but sometimes it does not.

Many framers attach self adhesive bumper at the rear of the frame in each bottom corner to facilitate airflow behind the frameand this is generally recognised as a good practice, but unfortunately they don't stay stuck to the siliconised water resistant rear surface on self adhesive backing / sealing tapes.

This is not a straight forward issue to solve since just deciding not to use these tape, also creates more problems when taping up frames with water resistant backing board, because tape using water based adhesives don't stick down securely onto water resistant backing boards. Water based tapes are much good on polymer mouldings either for the same reason.

Whether we like it, or not problems like this can come along, for various reasons and a lot of the time, as a result of reasons out of our control, you just have to deal with the problem when it happens.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Mount Boarder Sag/Gap

Post by Not your average framer »

There used to be an auction house based in my town, which helped generate some useful business for my business. All sort of items that had been bought from the auctions, would be brought in to be fixed up, repaired, or whatever and this was the period before the credit chrunch of 2007 to 2008. It was becoming trendy during this time to buy impressive old pictures (especially large ones) and hang them in your bath room.

Goodness knows where this trend came from, but some of these people found that steamy bathrooms and old pictures are not always a good combination and the more trendy an idea is the more people are willing to spend in order to be trendy. Many of these people decided after spending good money on these old pictures and frames than it would be worth getting them fixed and also sealed to prevent any further problems.

Most of these problems were due to buckled artworks, buckled mounts, buckled backing boards and mould. Not very surprising, when you think about it! I've not had very much of such work since the credit crunch, or since the demise of the auction house. Oh well, nothing lasts forever!
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
jonbon
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Organisation: Jon's Frames
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Re: Mount Boarder Sag/Gap

Post by jonbon »

Hi Chaps,

Thanks so much for this advice and the warm welcome. Really helpful and very thorough. The story of the bathroom pics fad was also quite amusing.

My brother's place is very humid. He runs a dehumidifier most days and has the best part of the amazon in his living room in the form of potted plants. I asked him to take the work off the wall and rest it on the ground leaned up to the wall, to see if it would relax the bowing which it did a little.

Bearing this in mind - in the future I guess I should continue framing as normal; use bumpers more often (as was directed in my framing course this time last year, which i didn't bother to follow, and as you have mentioned is good practice); and rectify humidity issues with clients as and when they come? I'll look up width guidelines for border margins. But as for foamboard between the undermount and the backing board, is there a time when I should be inserting this as standard?

Thanks
Jonbon
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Mount Boarder Sag/Gap

Post by Not your average framer »

I need to have concerns before I add the foam board. I don't do it as a standard thing. If I am framing something where I already know that it will be hung in a steamy bath room, the sandwich of glass, mount, undermount and backing board is sealed by taping around the edges with the linco aluminium barrier frame sealing tape and the backing board that I use for jobs like this is 4mm "Correx", which is completely waterprook.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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