Making Deep Frames for Casts

Get help and framing advice from the framing community
Post Reply
Bembridge
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue 04 Aug, 2020 9:25 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Organisation: Bembridge Casting
Interests: gardening

Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Bembridge »

Good morning,

Thanks for letting me join. I've been googling all sorts of framing questions and your forum continually pops up with helpful tips. I run a baby casting business (taking moulds of baby hand and feet and making plaster replicas) and the company that supplied my frames has just stopped trading. I'd like to do my own framing in future and would like some advice on box frame construction.

I've attached some photos of my old frames.

My partner does a lot of wood working, so we have a table saw/chop saw etc. available and a guillotine for cutting the moulding.

Our plan is to use this moulding: https://larsonjuhl.co.uk/mouldings/lars ... -152400000

Currently the front mount is held in with staples, but I'd like the option to have no front mount - what's the best material to use for spacing to hold the glass in place?

The current frames have a ply back, is that the best material? I've seen mdf offered a lot. The casts are screwed to the back so it needs to be able to support a reasonable amount of weight.

We're going to have the mounts cut professionally, but what would you advise for attaching the back mount to the backing board?

Any other advice/tips?

Thanks
Izzy
IMG_8526b.JPG
20200805_101448.jpg
20200805_101416.jpg
20200805_101358.jpg
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by prospero »

Actually, re to glass/mount the way you are doing it now is the elegant solution. You can get two-part mouldings
consisting of a deep rebated profile with matching spacer. The spacer holds the glass and forms a rebate at the back.
Problem is, they are not all that deep when it comes to it. What is the min glass -> back space needed?
Another way is to use a 'box' moulding which is like a figure 4. Gives a nice bevelled side to the inside of the frame.
Simple to make, but only available today in plain wood, so you have to paint/stain it yourself. And the sizes readily
available are a bit small for you use.

Rose&Hollis do a good range of mouldings that are eminently suitable, but again, need finishing.

Not a difficult job if you set your stall out. :D :wink:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
Posts: 11014
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Not your average framer »

Deep box frame mouldings can present some unexpected difficulties to those who have not done them before. With ordinary depths of frames, you don't have to be thinking about keeping the front ends of the mitred corner joints together, but deep box frames being that much deeper this can become more of an issue.

Some people don't bother adding any extra fixings at the front of the mitred corner joints and just rely of the glue and the frame being well clamped while the glue sets. Others may cross pin the front of these mitred corner joints and punch the pins below the surface, then fill and sand the corners to hide the pins.

I noticed that you did not mention anything about having an underpinner. It may be helpful to look into, whether an underpinner might be worth adding to your list and if this is going to be appropriate for your needs, or not!
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Not your average framer
Posts: 11014
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Not your average framer »

There is probably some scope for shopping around to get the most suitable moulding for your requirements and getting good prices as well.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Bembridge
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue 04 Aug, 2020 9:25 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Organisation: Bembridge Casting
Interests: gardening

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Bembridge »

Not your average framer wrote: Wed 05 Aug, 2020 10:13 am Deep box frame mouldings can present some unexpected difficulties to those who have not done them before. With ordinary depths of frames, you don't have to be thinking about keeping the front ends of the mitred corner joints together, but deep box frames being that much deeper this can become more of an issue.
Hadn't thought about that, thank you! Yes, we do have an underpinner. Having taken the frame apart further, it looks like they double pinned it i.e. fired a second pin to push the first one further in giving a 30mm pin in effect. Is that something you'd recommend or do you think front pinning would be better? We offered stained wood before, as well as black/white frames, which would be more difficult hide a front fixing.
Actually, re to glass/mount the way you are doing it now is the elegant solution. You can get two-part mouldings
consisting of a deep rebated profile with matching spacer. The spacer holds the glass and forms a rebate at the back.
Problem is, they are not all that deep when it comes to it. What is the min glass -> back space needed?
The current frame gives us a 60mm gap between glass and back, which we do use up for some casts so wouldn't want to go smaller. I've had a look but couldn't see any off the shelf spacers that would be that big. We were thinking maybe make our own wood strips - we are going to have to finish the frames ourself anyway so painting extra isn't a problem. Is ply, wood or mdf usually used?

Thank you
Not your average framer
Posts: 11014
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Not your average framer »

You will have your own priorities and I thinking that you will need to make a trial frame and see how things work best for you. Costs and time will be part of the issue.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by prospero »

Rose and Hollis do a "Very Deep Box Section" (their description) A333 with a complimentary spacer F15, which just so happens
gives you 65mm glass spacing. Only prob is that it comes in plain Obeche which is not the best stuff to stain. But it does paint well.
I would make the frames and paint after joining. Underpinning is a bit of a no-no, but you could inset one V-Nail and then put in a
couple of conventional nails near the top. A set of spring clamps would help. While they make divots, no a big snag as the nail holes
would have to be filled anyway. Once made good you can paint them.

Takes longer, a tad messy but easier overall IMHO. I use virtually no factory finished moulding nowadays. :wink:

I don't know of a 'off-the-shelf' moulding like this. In any case I wouldn't relish using one. :roll:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Abacus
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon 29 Nov, 2010 12:20 pm
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
Organisation: Abacus Picture Framing and Gallery
Interests: Picture Framing, Furniture making.

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Abacus »

If you decide you can’t be bothered to do your own you could buy them online from me! We have a lot of casters and ceramic cafes as customers.

Boxframes.co.uk

If you are doing your own then check your underpinned will fit the moulding under the head, check your guillotine can cut a moulding that deep. We use a double headed saw and use a Hoffman router to join deep mouldings.

We get our 60mm slip custom made for us.

Regards
Bembridge
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue 04 Aug, 2020 9:25 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Organisation: Bembridge Casting
Interests: gardening

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Bembridge »

Finished our first frames this week. We went with Rose and Hollis - thanks for the tip. The A45 and we've done Obeche for painted and actual Oak rather than staining.

The oak gave us a little trouble to start with, but reading some old posts we worked out cutting it in stages! We are using one v-nail and then pinning it.

Here's the final results:
IMG_9112c.jpg
IMG_9046c.jpg
Couple of last questions...

Could anyone recommend an oak filler for the pin holes? Not 100% happy with the colour match on the one we got.

What would you recommend for attaching the back mount to the back board? We did spray adhesive - not sure if that's the best option or there is something else.

Thanks for all your help.
User avatar
Steve N
Posts: 2992
Joined: Sat 21 Jul, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: Somewhere Staple Hill Bristol
Organisation: Frontier Picture Frames ltd
Interests: Walking our retired Greyhound,art, falling asleep on sofa in front of the telly
Location: Now in Bristol
Contact:

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Steve N »

They look very good, I would be happy for them to come to of my workshop, as for the nail hole filling, dab a bit of wood glue in them before you sand the frame, then you are using the same colour wood dust as tge frame, should hardly notice the holes
Steve CEO GCF (020)
Believed in Time Travel since 2035

Proud to sell Ready Made Frames
http://www.frontierpictureframes.com
http://www.designerpicturemounts.com/
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by prospero »

Nice job. :clap:

I find Brummer stopping in Antique Pine a good match for natural Oak.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
Posts: 11014
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Making Deep Frames for Casts

Post by Not your average framer »

I don't have too many problems with filling oak. I often fill any narrow gaps with glue and sand the corners to to get the edges perfect and the saw dust from sanding the surfaces of the wood ends up mixing into the glue. Other times I do the same with wax filler mixed to match the colour of the wood and again sanding the surfaces of the wood and the saw dust from the sand paper and heat from the sanding causes the saw dust to mix into the top part of the wax filler, making it a very good match.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Post Reply