Rebate not deep enough

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Jag62
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Rebate not deep enough

Post by Jag62 »

Today's challenge is I have 2 framed items which once fillet, glass & triple mount are stacked there is insufficient depth to get a backboard in.
Do I cut backboard wide & attach direct to back of frame or add a strip of wood to rear of frame to increase the depth of rebate ? In either case I presume I attach D-rings to the backboard rather than frame ? Or is there another preferred method ?

Many thanks,

Neil
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Re: Rebate not deep enough

Post by Not your average framer »

As these are already assembled frames, I would not suggest attempting to gain more space by machining the rebate any deeper. I would suggest that it is not a smart move to do this,as if the have a little bit of a mishap and the frames get damaged, it's going to cost you money to replace them. So leave the frames as they are.

It is not an uncommon thing to attach a frame made of strip wood to the rear of the frame, which will work quite well, or you can insert into the back of the frame, on top of the glass, mount and artwork a frame construted from a suitable fillet, or spacer moulding which is a snug fit inside the existing frame and fix it in place, with some multi-points and screws, or even screw some small screw eyes in to the outside of the fillet, or spacer frame and screw in the rear of the frame passing the screws through the screw eyes as well.

You will obviously need to fit a backing board into the back or the spacer / fillet frame in the rear of the frame. Not everyone has a multi-point gun and getting one for just one job is probably not economic to do so, but multi point are almost certainly the quickest way to fix the spacer / fillet frame in place. Otherwise I would go for the strip wood fixed to rear of the frame.
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Re: Rebate not deep enough

Post by JFeig »

I know of at least 3 methods.
  • 1. make a wood "extender" with preferrably a beveled back that can be painted with a flat finish paint
    2. There is an existing rebate extender made from a plastic extrusion. Lion should have it. https://frametek.com/rabbetspace/
    3. Secure the whole extended art package" with metal offsets that are made to keep stretched paintings into a frame ("Z" brackets)https://888mfgcorp.com/canvasoffsetclips.aspx
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Re: Rebate not deep enough

Post by Rainbow »

Jag62 wrote: Mon 30 Nov, 2020 11:19 am Today's challenge is I have 2 framed items which once fillet, glass & triple mount are stacked there is insufficient depth to get a backboard in.
You haven't mentioned an undermount. If you're not using an undermount, you'll still need an acid-free barrier sheet between the art and the backboard.

Jag62 wrote: Mon 30 Nov, 2020 11:19 am Do I cut backboard wide & attach direct to back of frame
That's what I would do, as long as the glass/mount/art sandwich lays flat within the rebate and doesn't protrude. How are you planning to attach it?

Jag62 wrote: Mon 30 Nov, 2020 11:19 am In either case I presume I attach D-rings to the backboard rather than frame ?
I'd screw D-rings through the backboard and the frame.

What you do might depend on the overall size of the picture though.
Jag62
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Re: Rebate not deep enough

Post by Jag62 »

Thanks all for the replies. Think I'll need to use all of those strategies given the framing requirements are each quite different (but all use a narrow rebate0. Lesson learned - chuck out the corresponding chevrons and/or be careful what I offer fillets on in future !

Cheers,

Neil
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Re: Rebate not deep enough

Post by prospero »

I've been niggling at reps for nigh-on 40 years about this. :lol:

Manufacturers make mouldings with shallow rebates based on plank sizes. To increase the rebate depth would mean
jumping up to the next size plank. An increase of 2mm would dramatically increase the price. That's their story anyway. :lol:
But there are some moulding with a generous rebate that don't cost a bomb.

Mouldings with a rebate of <8mm can really only take glass/mount/nonundermount/thinback and only fit for cheapo readymades.

As bespoke framers we love all the multi-layered mounts with fillets and wotnot and 15mm is the ideal minimum.

If it's a wide (1"+) moulding then it's easy to fix an extension to the back as you can do it without the edge of the extender being visible.
Extending a 1/2" moulding is a PITA. :|
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Jag62
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Re: Rebate not deep enough

Post by Jag62 »

Yep, it's a 1/2" moulding !
Valuable learning :)
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Re: Rebate not deep enough

Post by Not your average framer »

Shallow rebates are a major limiting factor for me. As you can probably imagine, as someone who makes plenty of stacked frame mouldings, I find stacked moulding frames an ideal opportunity to incorporate a moulding with a deeper rebate as the inner moulding. I don't much like deep mouldings, which are a bit to skinny, because many of the mouldings that I like to stack are pine. (Pine mouldings are often a good price). However I look at the deeper skinny ones and think to myself, are these likely to bow , or twist over the years, so I like to avoid using deep skinny mouldings if I can.

I have a plentiful stock of a chunkier deep moulding and very often cut part of the rear of the moulding off, the cut off bit rarely gets wasted as I can often get a spacer, of slip out of it, but generally a moulding in the center of a stacked moulding frame, is it is a deep one, can make the frame stand away from the wall to much when hung. Often the centre frame, if to wide at the front does not look in keeping with the overal frame, so I have to make adjustments, to improve the look. An easy way to do this is often to chamfer the sight edge and tohide some of the excess wide by stacking this moulding into something with a deeper rebate.

It would be easy to get carried away and to do some moe extensive machining, but then is just eating up part of you profit margin and leaves you working for too little profit for your work. Too many mouldings have very little rebate depth and certain of the pine mouldings, which I stock for making stacked moulding frames, only have a rebate depth of about 7mm. This does not aways tend to mater to much on stacked moulding frames, but I'm often a fan of using slips and spacers as part of the presentation of the overal job. So yes, I find shallow rebates are a major limitation in very many cases, but it's often necessary to buy such mouldings to control at least some of your costs.

I make quite a lot of ready made box frames from left over scraps, as box frames tend to sell more easily and controlling your costs on ready made box frames, has a lot to do with choosing cheaper mouldings and I think that this applies, even when you are primarily using up left over off cuts. It is too easy to forget that although you are using up off cuts, you still had to pay for the originally. One method that I use, is to build out the back with either a bit of strip wood, of a spacer. Many of the spacers which I use are produced from left over off cuts. I don't think that many people realise that making spacer from bits and pieces in this way, saves a lot more than most people have a idea.

I make spacers using my band saw, it's so quick and easy. Also the finished cut, that I get from the band saw does not need much sand papering to get a fantastic finish. A lot of the time, I can quickly sand surfaces on my bench top belt sander. It's extremely quick and easy and letting the machine do all the work suits me very well. I usually fit these spacers inside the frame, which also holds the glass in place and then sucure them with multi-tabs and screws. Minimum material cost and very little labour time works very well for ready made deep frames, but also for some of the bespoke work as well. As individuals, working out a various ways that we can extend the rebate depth on a frame should be something that we already have solutions for. I also often pin strip wood to the rear of frame, using my pneumatic headless pinner and glue, which looks very good on bespoke framing jobs.
Mark Lacey

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