Offcuts Formula?

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aspectgreg
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Offcuts Formula?

Post by aspectgreg » Mon 22 Feb, 2021 9:18 am

I am probably being quite thick, but is there some formula to work out the biggest size frame I can make from a certain length of moulding? I've got a stack of 'ends' that I want to make up to flog, while I'm quiet, and want to make them as big as the moulding length allows. Any help greatly appreciated!

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prospero
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Re: Offcuts Formula?

Post by prospero » Mon 22 Feb, 2021 11:13 am

A perennial problem for anyone who has been framing awhile. We've all got piles of offcuts that we can make 'little frames' with.
I may have grown a bit cynical over the years but unless you have a market to shift them all it is better to chuck them out and make space. :lol:
I knew one chap who chopped up the offcuts as he went along into any-old-size frames and shoved any-old-pictures in them.
Even down to postage stamps. He did this throughout the year, and come Christmas he set out a stall near his back door and
knocked them out to tourists at a particularly huge Christmas Market. (Lincoln). The footfall of punters was something like 250K.
He did well out of this. But not everyone is so fortunate. :cry: I have had spates of offcut using-up and while being very gratifying
to think you are making money from 'waste' it does take time and unless you can move them reasonably fast it's a waste of time.

Just something to bear in mind. :wink:
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Post by Not your average framer » Mon 22 Feb, 2021 1:10 pm

I keep lot of off cuts to make things out of, this includes more than just frames. I have absolutely no success salling small frames such as %" x 7" frames, they are a total waste of time, I have not sold more than half a dozen in the last 17 years as a picture framer. I sell a lot more ready made small square deep box frames than little tiny frames in the usuall standard sizes of frames below 8" x 10". I do sell a few 8" x 0"'s and I think this is because it an easy size for photos printed out on the home computer. You would think that A4 frames would also sell well, but it's not a huge amount. Customers seem to buy these more for certificates. 8" x 8" are moderately popular, especially if they are nice looking stacked moulding frames. I make quite a few different sizes of smaller square frames, but I don't make any thing below 6" x 6". ready made frames

I'm not sure that we live in an era where the demand for smaller and older looking frame will sell. Frames with narrow gold sight edges are the kiss of death, gold sight edges need to be wider for the modern taste. In the earlier years of my business, I used to buy lots of some called bargain bundle of moulding from Frinton Mouldings original the worked very well for me, but evenually not so much. I've still got some of these and some are very suitable for making stack moulding ready made frames. We used to get a good volume to visitors during the summer months are these used to tick over very nicely. The main summer months were not that busy in those days as the locals were by interested in going on their holidays, so the boost from selling these frames to the tourist was particularly welcome.

The icing on the cake, tends to be ready made oak frames made from scrap and some of the more grotty left over bits of oak are made in to wire brushed and washed rustic frames, these sell really quickly, they are just so popular. I sell all manner of rustic ready made frames, there are lots of old historic cottages and barn conversions around here. It's the perfect ready made market from me! Then there's the customers who are looking to buy ready made frames for framing items to sell, anything which looks nice, which they can get at the right price gets snapped up by these customers, they all have a number of frames sitting around waiting to get used and are usually looking for something that looks a bit special, which they will use when the time comes.

Ready made deep box frames are generally quite popular, but a lot still depends on the month of the year. Before the credit crunch, I had five really good months of the year and seven less good months, after the credit crunch everything flipped around the other way. It's now seven good months and five less good months. I can only guess at why this is, but the time of the credit crunch was simply dreadful for business. I make plenty of older looking vintage and a bit grubby looking pine frames, which are steady sellers and plenty of older looking grainy vintage and a bit grubby cottage style frames. Many of these are made from stacked mouldings. I have to take care on some mouldings, not to make the left over scraps to small, when I can just cut the next piece from another length of the same moulding. This actually makes good sense, although it probably sounds otherwise.

I buy plenty of cheaper pine mouldings. I know they are not necessarily everybody's favorite, but they work well for stacked molding frames and deep box frames. It remains to find out, how well these items continue to sell after Covid. Some of the eBay gang framing all manner of bits and pieces to sell, but I am wonder if the supply of these bits and pieces to frame and sell will be as viable after lifting the lockdown. Well I guess that time will tell. I have some left over lengths of not very promising mouldins, that get sliced up and and used for slips and spacers. The slips are best with older style thicker profiles and these mostly get cut of my band saw, spacers are usually using whatever bits happen to be left afterwards. I guess a lot of this must sound a bit Heath Robinson'ish.

There was not originally much of a plan to this, but it just gradually developed along the way, mostly as a way of not spending money. Does this all sound crazy? I expect so! I doubt if I ever would have started much of this without a bit of inspiration from fellow forum member Prospero. Thanks Peter from the many instances of inspiration that have come from you. Behold the crazy framer that you have helped to create! Along the way I also learn a fair bit from Pete Bingham as well. I wonder how it feels to be associated with the wired and wonderfully strange ways of the unconventional framer from darkest Devon!
Mark Lacey

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JohnMcafee
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Re: Offcuts Formula?

Post by JohnMcafee » Mon 22 Feb, 2021 2:14 pm

Subtract 50mm (or 2inches) from your moulding length

Subtract 8 times the moulding width from the above result

Divide by 2

The result will be the width plus height of the glass that will fit the frame that can be made from the length of moulding (assuming it to be flawless).

For example say your moulding is 1.65m long and 25mm wide:

1650 - 50 - (8x25)
= 1650 - 50 - 200
= 1400

1400 / 2
=700
So, this moulding can make a frame 300 x 400, or 350 x 350, or 500 x 200, etc. - any size where width plus height is 700
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pramsay13
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Re: Offcuts Formula?

Post by pramsay13 » Tue 23 Feb, 2021 10:58 am

That's a nice easy way of working it out John, but what is the 50mm you removed at the beginning?

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Re: Offcuts Formula?

Post by JohnMcafee » Tue 23 Feb, 2021 11:37 am

Well spotted Pramsay. :D

The 50mm is a bit arbitrary, but it is to allow for an initial trim to clean up the mitre at the outside end of the moulding and the extra nibble that is taken at every cut by the point of the Morso blade, or saw.
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Re: Offcuts Formula?

Post by JohnMcafee » Thu 25 Feb, 2021 4:21 pm

The Maximum Frame Size calculator, will do the sums for you. Not only will it calculate the maximum frame size that can be made from a given length of moulding, but it will also calculate the (theoretical) length of moulding required to make a frame of given dimensions.

Just enter the Moulding Length and Moulding width and the app will calculate the largest frame that can be made from that length.

Also, by selecting the second line of text and entering the Moulding Width, Frame Width, and Frame Height, the program will compute the length of moulding required to make the frame.

See image below:-
ScreenCap.jpg

Download and open the zip file, and place the single executable MaxFrameSize file in any suitable location - it is totally self-contained, so no installation required.

MaxFrameSize.zip
(486.47 KiB) Downloaded 54 times
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