Chevron question

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Orde02
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Chevron question

Post by Orde02 »

Hello all.

I'm looking to have a core range of mouldings to offer regular framing to locals but was wondering what mouldings to offer? I've only made hand finished frames so far so don't have any moulding samples to show potential customer in my workshop. Is there a basic range offered by suppliers that I can just buy or is it a case of buying some over time and see what sells?

Any advice appreciated

Matt
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

It has changed a little in recent years, some still give you some sample while other supply chevrons, either free, or there can be a small charge. Even with companies which usually make a charge there are still times when the don't necessarily always make any charge. If it something which they are trying to promote, there may not be a charge, or if you already are a big enough customer with them there may not be a charge. You usually will have to see what individual companies have to say.
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Gesso&Bole »

I would recommend as a start point to work with 1 supplier, take their advice on top sellers. I would expect them to provide me with chevrons. You will probably need 1-200 samples to offer a full range.

As you find gaps in your range you can add to the range, but remember to weed out stuff that doesn’t sell, otherwise you can end up with a huge number
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Re: Chevron question

Post by fusionframer »

I use mounts in very few of the frames i make, I have rhe Arcadia chevrons, but what comes out when i do need them are about 20. Off whites, creams, solid core black, a couple of greys, dark blue and dark green.

I will normally find this works fine and i don't end up framing a 3 inch square object with bright orange (done that once).

I have a 2nd pack with dark reds, light greys and blues etc of about 40 chevrons which can come out as a backup.

I buy regular off whites and blacks in packs and keep a stock, but otherwise have to order in which is no problem as i am working with an 8 week backlog.

As i said, all my frames are hand finished and most items i frame don't require mounting so i keep my stock simple.

I remember a few years back waiting whilst a customer spent an hour trying loads of different options with double mounts and ending up back with the first choice and that is all lost working time. I know that is part of the process, but some really took the p**s.

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Re: Chevron question

Post by Justintime »

Have a look at Lion, Mainline, Larson Juhl to name a few. I try and stick to suppliers that offer chop and single lengths, to keep stock down. Lion offer a great range of what I call everyday mouldings (I can sell them everyday!). LJ do some higher end looking ones imo. Most want to charge for chevrons but if you have a credit account set up and speak to your area Rep they can discount or remove the charge.
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

I have quite a small and fairly limited range of sample moulding chevrons I don't know why, but that's kind of how things have ended up. If you are looking for a really clever plan, well sorry there was not one! I often talk to customers about what they want, grab a bit of waste moulding out of the waste bin and produce a sample while they watch and tell me what it needs to look like. There a lot of non verbal conversation using eye contact, gestures and facial expressions, but there can be some verbal stuff as well, when necessary.

Customers are always interested to see some quite unusual taking shape before there eyes. I'm a big believer in empowering customers during the consultation process and customers not only like ding things this way, but almost always take to it like a duck to water. How did this all start? Well, I just fell in to it while working with customers who I already knew well and that's how things have largely continued. Rural west country people are a little bit like this anyway and we are a strange lot in Bovey tracey as well.

Bovey Tracey is a kind of go with the flow sort of place and it's strange sort mix of locals and newcomers. The locals are really friendly, but only a few of the new comers seem to want to have much to do with the locals. Many of the new comers don't seem to shop in the town at all, perhaps they don't like seeing the locals squeezing cabbages to see how fresh they are and stuff like that!
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Re: Chevron question

Post by vintage frames »

I think you might be asking the wrong question here.
You've already built up a significant on-line business by supplying frames of your own design and manufacture. I bet you didn't start by asking " what sort of frames would artists like to buy? "
No, you created your own style and design, put it out there and the orders came back in.
Why not try the same with your local customers.
Don't give them too much choice. See if you can come up with some simple profiles and finishes. You have a routing table. Go for lots of sight lines. Sight lines on simple profiles can add lots of value and style.
Most people don't really know what they want but get very excited by something new and unique.
Get creative and above all - give yourself an identity!
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

I think Dermot is right about that!

Thinking about which moulding chevrons are good, I sell good quantities of basic Oak frames. Really fancy mouldings don't much matter. Customers just really like Oak, most of my Oak mouldings are not especially wide ones, but they still sell well. Oak is a sure fire winner and I just can't go wrong with Oak, it's a really regular selling item!
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Orde02 »

Thanks for all the responses. Dermot and Mark, I'll definitely keep on doing what I'm doing in my own way, I was thing more for jobs that perhaps don't require hand finished frames. Say someone who works around the corner wants a small print or photo framed, right now I have nothing to show them other than and hand made frames I haven't yet shipped off. Perhaps it would be good to have a limited range of mouldings to give them something to see in real life rather than a catalogue?
But now you've got me thinking, perhaps I'll just get some moulding chevrons that I like and fit in with my style of framing. I have no desire to take on too many jobs, there's plenty of well established framers in and around Edinburgh whom I don't want to even try and compete with. Perhaps if potential customers don't like anything they see at my workshop, I'm the wrong framer for them? I'm happy doing things my way and don't expect to have too many walk in jobs coming my way anyway.

Matt
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Justintime »

I think you've found your answer Matt, prefinished mouldings could be a slippery slope. It sounds like you already have a solid USP
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Matt,

As you have probably already guessed, I do my own thing quite a bit and it has been how my business survives in not the businest of places, well other local framers have come and gone during this time and I'm still hanging on in there. Maybe doing your own thing is not so bad after all. I also got some very straight forward basic quick, simple and easy hand finished moulding options, which are really cheap to produce them, they are profitable, versatile and very helpful for cash flow. When hard times come along they keep me ticking over and provide much of the turnover that I need to keep the bills paid.

It does not sound to most people like a very impressive plan, but it makes relatively steady turn over and I been doing stuff like this for most of the time that I've been framing, it works well. When I started, I had virtually no money at all and could not realistically afford to investing in the needs of the business. Well almost two decades later, I'm still here. It has kept me fed and a roof over my head and slowly, but organically grown in to a better business.

Don't get me wrong, it's still basically just a small business, but it has survived the credit crunch and a very hard time in Devon, when foot and mouth killed many of the businesses around me. I never borrowed a penny from the bank to get things started and I have not borrowed any money from the bank as the business continues. Maybe doing your own thing might be good for you at least in the short term. If things go well at this time,can still reconsider your options at a later time if necessary!
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Re: Chevron question

Post by fitz »

I have found Lion to be exceptional in this respect. I have a load of sample chevrons that Lion have supplied free of charge and am also now getting sample chevrons from Centrado and Wessex. I now have a wide variety of options for my customers and find that they tend to choose mouldings that I like to work with😊
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

Yes, this is true and the quality of Lion mouldings is of the highest quality as well, but their prices reflect this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them, but most framers also have a supplier for lower priced everyday stuff as well. If you don't already do this, perhaps you should look in to the benefits of stocking some more basic stuff as well at really helpful prices for your business. I compare prices and buy different items where it is most helpful.
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Matt,

Are you going to do some cheaper hand finished frames for lower budget customer? I make some really nice looking hand finished Obeche frames which are hand finished to look like Oak. The longer grain flects Present in Obeche is perefct as Oak look alike frames! I lightly brush the Obeche using one of the bronze bristle graining brushes sold by Lion and then apply a medium oak stain.

I make my own stain using acrylic paint and water, the after it dry, I add a top coat of Polyvine Dead Flat (matt) Acrylic wax finish varnish. The finished result looks really nice and it's very quick and easy to do! I do this a lot with Simons moulding M0097, which is at a very helpful price! For speed, I set the acrylic stain with a hot air gun, which I keep moving backwards and forward, in order not to make the Acrylic overheat and bubble as it sets.

This is a very nice looking moulding which has a quite authentic Oak looking finish and texture. Naturally I make sure that customers understand that it is Oak stained Obeche. I also produce this same modlding in a few other colours and shades as well. It's quite a profitable and really nice looking moulding when finished. I hand finish this moulding in four different favorite colours stroke shades as a regular thing. It looks great!
Mark Lacey

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Re: Chevron question

Post by iorek »

Hi

I'm a relative newcomer (couple of years in the game). So take with a pinch of salt :)

What I have found works (and I'm really just reiterating what your previous responders have said) is having a small selection and focusing on discussing the customers needs.

Mostly, they don't know. But you can guide them by using your small sample of chevrons and mount samples into building their frames and being invested in the process. If they feel they have ownership in the process, you will make bigger sales. I was a photographer in my previous life and I did the whole in person sales thing. I was good at it, because I allowed the client to explore their needs and wants and gave them agency in the process.

Don't overwhelm them with a billion options. You seem to have a good thing going with your hand made stuff - and a nice tight selection of pre made will compliment that very well imo.

I use the rule of 3 - (3 thin black mouldings, 3 wide black mouldings, 3 thin white, 3 thick white, 3 shabby, 3 metallic etc etc). Find out what they want and don't overwhelm them - it's easy to choose from 3 and close the sale. It's problematic to choose from 20.

YMMV, I have found this approach is efficient and effective. The customer feels like they've really been listened to and they have really got what THEY want. And it doesn't take much time at all.

I use Lion for everyday mouldings and make my own (mostly oak) frames, so possibly a similar scenario.
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Iorek,

Yes, I fully agree and the consultation process should be enjoyable and empowering for the customer. I have many customers, who become really good friends. When new customers come in to my shop, I want them to know that my shop is the friendship zone and they everything can be fun. There's no hard sell here, I'm not greedy trying to get more money out of them.

All I want is a happy customer, who was glad that they came here! If they don't want to spend much, I'm still happy about that! Even the lower cost items in my shop are produced to the same high quality standard. I want to feel good about everything which I do and at the end of the day, go to sleep feeling that I have done my very best and to me it's that which really matters.

If I can, I like to really make somebody's day. It's not really very hard to do!
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Orde02 »

NYAF, I'd just like the option to be able to do some walk in work if it presented itself, either handfinished or prefinished mouldings. I have a large space to work in which is open to the public so why not? Right now I have nothing to show a customer so I'd probably lose out on the work, looking to remedy that now but I'd imagine it would mostly be as a sideline to the work I normally do.

iorek, many thanks, that's the kind of the information I was looking for, Your rule of 3 makes perfect sense and perhaps might be something I'll look in to. I've contacted Lion about moulding samples so I'll see how it goes. I looked at your website, great framing and beautifully photographed too. Can tell you're a photographer!

Matt
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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Matt,

I'm guess that the rule of three does not have to include only up market and relatively expensive items only. I like to offer something to fit a lower budget requirement as well. Maybe for some of us, it might be helpful to add a few more mouldings, while still keeping the number of moulding chevrons down to a simple and really not particularly amount. The rule of three has great merit in is simplicity, but It would not necessary be a serious problem, if it became an alternative, but otherwise small number. For example a rule of 5, or 6. There a lot of beauty in the simplicity of this idea, so much so, that it takes someone with real understanding to think of something so sensible as this. I think that this sort of thing could work well even for me! How about an up market rule of three and an alternative budget range rule.

With regard to my practice of taking a small scrap from the waste bin and hand finishing it as the customer watches. It is very quick, simple and easy! In the days when Pete Bingham did quick and easy hand finishing demonstrations on the Lion stand at the NEC spring fair. He was doing much the same thing. People were fasinated and it was entertaining as well. Many people could hardly beleve their eyes. It's exactly how it is for me. My customers love it. They have never seen anything like it. It's a new experience and the fact that I can create a custom finish just for them speaks volumes. It a completely new shopping experience, which almost never happens in this day and age.

Another thing, customers do not expect stupidly low prices, when they see it being done right in front of their eyes. It's the ultimate niche marketing thing, nothing else compares. It's so visual and not only that I can answer all their questions on the spot and even do a little demo as a visual aid to answering a question. There is an expression which says that "seeing is beleiving", well that's it in a nutshell. A few years ago I held a hand finishing course for which I hired the main function room in the town hall. 18 forum members came, it was not rigidly planned, it was fun for all and was sort of go with the flow. I needed to slow things down so everyone could understand how I did things, but it was still quite fast.

Those who came on this course will be able confirm to others just how fast I can do these things. A lot of it is all about speed, there is a flow to the work, which comes from speed. Doing it slowly and deliberately, does not produce such a natural flow to the work and to how the finished result looks. Being able to WOW the customers is such an accent to your business. I am hoping to put on a completely free of charge open day some time with free cups of coffee, for those who want to pop in and see for themselves. It really is a completely different way of doing things and is very big on the WOW factor as well.
Mark Lacey

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Re: Chevron question

Post by Not your average framer »

While I have been thinking about the rule ofthree suggestion, it has occured to me that I have two small aluminium tools boxes, which are like small suitcases and have struts which do not allow the lids so open beyond the vertical position. I am thinking tat these would like quite professional display items in one of my shop windows and that moulding chevrons would look very nicely displayed within both the lid and the main part of the suitcase, using this rule of three principle. These suitcases have not really been used and in every respect look completely brand new! The flat side panels have very attractive embossed aluminium contruction. Sounds like a plan to me, which could work well!
Mark Lacey

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Re: Chevron question

Post by iorek »

Thanks for the additional thoughts added here.

Mark, you're absolutely right. There is no reason why 4, 5, 6 wouldn't work. It's what suits each of us individually for our premises, sales areas and personality. And as you mentioned, making somebody glad they came in is the goal. If you are easy to work with, people will use your service.

That's why this forum is so good, it's been invaluable for me to hear from other framers who have experience and skillsets far beyond my own. What a valuable resource this is :)
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