Joining mouldings

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countrystudio
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Joining mouldings

Post by countrystudio »

Interesting project to do.
Need to frame a relief sculpture. Customer's request is to use two mouldings to make up the frame.
What is the best way to bond two mouldings together so that in effect you land up with a frame within a frame.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Thank you
Roboframer

Re: Joining mouldings

Post by Roboframer »

If the inner frame is completely within the outer frame then it could be fixed in the same way as any frame's contents, but if it is poking out the back of the inner frame then it could be fixed in the same ways as a stretched canvas that pokes out the back of a frame.
framemaker

Re: Joining mouldings

Post by framemaker »

If you are using two barewood frames that you want to bond together, and then paint or finish afterwards, you could use PVA wood glue or a gap filling adhesive like Gripfill or No Nails. Glue up, wipe any excess away with a damp cloth, then fix the frames together any number of ways as Robo has suggested. Finally, if needed you can fill any join line with Polyfilla or some fine surface filler.
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prospero
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Re: Joining mouldings

Post by prospero »

Tips for satcked frames. :wink:

Cut the outer one first.

Don't make the inner one fit too tightly inside the outer. Better slightly sloppy than snug. The woods may expand at difference rates. Especially important if the elements aren't glued all along the length.

As you cut the inner rails, try then inside the outer frame. There should be about a 2mm gap. If you make them so they fit exactly, when you join the inner frame it most likely won't fit and you have to arse about sanding bits off. It is a good idea to radius the corners of the inner frame quite severely though, as there is often an imperceptible bulge near the corners. :( Maintain the same difference between long/short as the outer.

To join (assuming the inner frame protrudes). You can drill pilot holes diagonally into the innner frame and use thin nails. You don't need many and you don't need to drive them too deep. If the inner frame is <1" or so wide, you can nail though the back of the rebate.

Or.... if it may be necessary to separate the frames later, You can use Multipoint points which have a hole in them and fix with small screws. If you haven't got, or can't justify buying, the Multipoint gun, small screw eyes do the same job but takes longer. Ordinary long framers points or bendy tabs held with a staple will do the job. Slightly crude but quick and effective.
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framemaker

Re: Joining mouldings

Post by framemaker »

Just to provide an opposite point of view - cut the inner frame first!

Working from the outside in, towards the picture, seems just wrong to me! :shock:
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prospero
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Re: Joining mouldings

Post by prospero »

:D just bitter experience. I've tried it both ways (as the actress said......) and seem to get more accurate results doing the outside first. :P

Although sometimes I do as many as 5-6 concentric sections in which case I start with the widest which may be in the middle. :Slap:
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Not your average framer
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Re: Joining mouldings

Post by Not your average framer »

I do a lot of stacked frames and the method of fixing will depend upon the actual mouldings used. However it is a simple process once you have done a few.

I always make the outer frame first, having acurately measured all the mouldings and acurately calculated the size of the outer frame. All the frames to go in iside this one are cut slightly too large and shaved down to be just the right size, less a bit to allow.s for a little swelling at the joint when the wedges are inserted.

Too much gap can mean that the inner frames can be pulled out from strainght when nailing them together, so I like to keep the gaps relatively small. Others can point to valid reasons to have the gaps a little larger and I would agree with this if the frames are using dissimilar varieties of wood.

Where possible I like to nail factory finished frames together from inside. It takes a bit of skill / practice, but works very well. As prospero has already said pilot holes can be drilled before hand, but there are times when I can manage without doing so, by using hardened steel nails.

I always like to glue bare wood frames and fill the joins before before hand finishing. If the gap beteen frames is about a quarter of a millimetre all round a good quality thick PVA glue will adequately fill the gap and ensure that there will not be any later movement to crack open the finish on the frame..

Sometimes it is possible to fix the frames together at each corner by underpinning through one moulding into the other and handy wrapping the two frames together between the corners while the glue sets. This only works if the mouldings used are suitable for this technique. You have to know what you are doing to use this technique!

Other fixing methods can include, screws through screw eyes and screws through fletcher multi-point tabs.

If you know you do a bit of research, it is possible to use cheaper smaller mouldings to make up much large profiles with a resulting cost saving over many larger profiles. Sometimes carefully chosen factory finished mouldings can look like they were meant to be one moulding if you don't mind spending time trrying different samples together.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
countrystudio
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Re: Joining mouldings

Post by countrystudio »

I am using Simons mouldings OBEC31 with a reverse rebate for float framing canvases.
Onto the flat rebate I am aiming to attach OBEC105 which is a square deep moulding.
This OBEC105 moulding is to be turned on its side and then attached to the outer moulding.
Sounds odd but you will land up with a flat surface onto which a relief sculpture is to be float mounted with a square ridge (the intended sight line of the moulding facing upwards) butting onto the rebate of the OBEC 31 moulding.
So effectively I have only got about 1.5cm of wood to screw/nail through from one moulding to the other.
Reason - to achieve a wide frame with structural lines to compliment the sculpture.
Will post pics of the project.
Many thanks for all your advice. Much appreciated.
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prospero
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Re: Joining mouldings

Post by prospero »

Good design. :yes:
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Graysalchemy

Re: Joining mouldings

Post by Graysalchemy »

I always frame a picture starting from the artwork, designing the mount which in turn gives the glass size and the frames internal. Io would then cut the inner rim the measure its external and the cut the outer.

The only time I do it the other way is when the external size is critical to the mm. Interior designers are only bothered by the overal size even if that means cropping (covering not cutting) the artwork.

Alistair
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Re: Joining mouldings

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Allistair,

If you are glueing several mouldings inside of each other, there are big advantages in doing it the other way round as it saves having to worry about the glue having to span too large a gap.

It is helpful for stacked mouldings for hand finishing to be solidly glued together to prevent movement at the join lines, as this may crack the hand finished surface.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Roboframer

Re: Joining mouldings

Post by Roboframer »

There's one time I like to work from the outside in (apart from having to when a customer specifies the overall dimensions) and that's when I mitre a flat profile on its side for the box and then make a capping frame that sits inside the created rebate - tried to post a photo but the server didn't like it - but here's a link to what I mean.

I like to feel the play, not see it - in fact I don't want any play, I want the sucker to have to be squeezed in .... but not so tight that it might splay the top of the box.

An 'OOOOOOOH' rather than an 'AAAAAGH'
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