Hello from Corinna in Notts.

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Corinna
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Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by Corinna »

Hello, another recruit for the hive mind here. I, like previous intro posts, have kept coming across this forum when searching for answers. Some questions by other people I have actually been able to answer but have not been a member up until now. I am doing an MA in conservation in Lincoln, and I have veered toward wooden gilded objects. I love gilded frames, but to be honest, I love decorative arts in general. I am a 2D mixed media artist as well and have spent 18 years in secondary schools, running art departments for the largest part of that. Having left the teaching profession in disgust two years ago, I turned toward object conservation...and now I have questions! I hope all you clever people can answer them, or at least put me in the right direction.

My first question is about ormolu : have anyone come across gilded (actual gold) ormolu frames?
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by cleaver »

Happy welcome, Corinna :handshake:

I'm sure someone will be able to help with that query - some great framing knowledge on here, as I'm sure you've seen.

Thank you for all that time teaching....I'm sorry you had to get out, but I totally understand why you did.

See you around the boards,

Paul :)
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by vintage frames »

Hello Corinna.
I'm not sure I understand the question on ormolu frames. From what little I know, ormolu gilding refers to a chemical/ heat process of gilding metal objects with a mercury gold amalgam. Is this what you mean, and if so, sorry no - never had to deal with one. They were mostly used as photoframes and small ornamental mirrors. Or maybe it's the baroque style gilded frames you see as mirror consoles etc.
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by poliopete »

Hello Corinna :D and welcome to the FF.

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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by prospero »

Hi Corrina and Welcome to the Forum. :D


I've never seen an Ormolu frame either. :(
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi corinna and welcome to the forum,

I always understood that ormolu was a coating used on metal and bronzing powder type finishes. It does not get used so much these days, it's a bit out dated and there are other ways of sealing finishes which have to some degree become more popular. The basic principle behind ormolu was that it was to prevent oxidation of the finish, by sealing the surface against oxygen penetration. As I've already mentioned, there are other ways of doing this in modern times and framers preferences have changed.

It's an interesting subject and hopefully there will be someone, who knows more about ormolu, who can more fully address your question than myself. There are many oxygen blocking media available now, including chemical preparations, lacquers, varnishes and waxes, so there are plenty of options, which various people will know about. I have used a few of these personally, but by no means all of them. There are some members, who are particularly expert in the more specialist end of the market, who are very able in the proper gilding methods and can speak with much more knowledge than myself.

A large part of my gold, or silver finishes has been using bronzing powders and wax binders, some times with the addition of sodium silicate. I can turn out some pretty impressive results quite quickly, but real gold leaf is something quite different and the level and range of skills required is somewhat different. Fortunately there are those, who know plenty about this also on this forum and may be better able to talk about ormolu, than myself.

We are very pleased to have you join us and hope that you will enjoy the forum.
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by Not your average framer »

prospero wrote: Fri 28 Feb, 2020 11:38 am I''ve never seen an Ormolu frame either. :(
I expect you have Peter! Ormolu gold frames are those old fashioned frames where the gold is a little bit dull and sometimes a little oxidised with age. It was just a production technique from an earlier age. A few ormolu type frame mouldings are still available even now, but most people don't know that the finish is an ormolu type finish. Some early gold paints were just gold bronzing powders mixed in a ormolu type varnish. Lots of cheaper, mass produced and even custom made frames were made using this sort of finish.
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by Not your average framer »

I think there was an earlier technique of the same name, which may have been superior to the later mass production technique of the same name. The name sounds vaguely like it came from France.
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by Not your average framer »

I have found this on the internet and thought this might be worth looking at, (I don't know what the accuracy of this item may, or may not be):

Ormolu, also called ground gold, is a coating put on an object to imitate the look of gold. Historically, this refers to a coating on bronze or brass items that is only achieved by a dangerous process known as mercury gilding. In modern usage, ormolu is used for any gilded object, though true pieces are rare.

In the early 18th century, Baroque and Rococo design styles achieved popularity among the royal and noble classes of Europe, notably in France and England. Rococo design in particular relies on highly-detailed ornamentation, occasionally leading detractors to refer to it as baroque gone insane. Unlike early design forms, where ornamentation was seen as an accessory to architecture, Rococo turned the process around, having architecture conform to whimsical, asymmetrical, and highly decorated design. One of the cornerstones of the movement was adoration for extremely detailed gold or gilded decorations.

In France, the rarity of gold lead and the popularity of Rococo lead to the invention of gold hybrids, notably by mixing gold with mercury paste. The name, of the gilding comes from the French words or molu, meaning mashed gold. To compensate for the lack of easily available gold sources, ormolu became extremely popular throughout Europe.

The process used to create ormolu involved an extremely dangerous method. To mercury gild, or fire guild, an object, the gold-mercury mix was applied to a brass or bronze mount, and then heated until the mercury vaporized. When cooled, the gilding would leave only the gold behind, firmly affixed to the mount. Unfortunately, the inhalation of mercury fumes is incredibly toxic, leading to the deaths of most ormolu crafters by the age of 40.

Jacques Caffieri was one of the best known French designers to use the process. Already renowned as a bronze sculptor, Caffieri adopted the new style to unbelievable success. Much of his work was crafted for Louis XV and the royal family. One of his best known ormolu pieces is a toilet built for the king’s Versailles bedchamber. In 1740, Caffieri’s wife obtained a royal permit to gild and cast bronze in the same workshop, which expanded their capabilities.

Throughout France and much of Europe, ormolu was used on furniture and sculptures. As Rococo styles gave way to the simplistic Neoclassical form, the popularity fell sharply. By 1830, due to trend changes and the danger of the process, the poisonous methods of creating gilt fell out of fashion. Gilding waxed and waned in popularity throughout the next two centuries, but other, safer methods were created to achieve the desirable gold coating.

Today, true ormolu is rare and prized by collectors. Museums worldwide feature authentic pieces in displays of 17th-18th style and design Although it is certainly pretty to look at when well preserved, it is difficult to escape the shadow of deaths caused by the mercury firing, and the ignorance that allowed the process to exist for over a century.
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Corinna
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by Corinna »

Margorzata Sawiki is an expert in the area of gilding and she refers to (and is referred to) on this subject. The frame definitely has gold content- I’ve tested it! Between 11-14ct. There are different types of ormolu with one of them being used as a toning layer they are applied cold and are mixtures of ground gold, shellac, animal glue and something else I can’t remember. The toning layer is animal glue and shellac, it happens to be very attractive to soot and smoke , happily the frame I have has both of those types on it! The soot has caused the ormolu layers to cross link and was almost black when I started cleaning.
What I’m REALLY interested in is if any one has come across one before? I have lots of research so that’s not the problem.
It is rococo and has a toile layer under the gesso to give texture. I can post a picture if that helps?
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by vintage frames »

I'm getting hopelessly confused with the spelling and meaning of ormolu now. One meaning refers to metal gilding with mercury and the other the term used to describe a deadening varnish applied over freshly gilded surfaces. From what you've mentioned about gesso over toile fabric, I assume you're describing work cleaning a gilded swept frame. The toile surface creates a very rough background surface so as to scatter the reflected light from the gilding and so contrast with the smooth surface on the applied ornaments.. This can be said to define one of the elements of beauty in a swept frame.
I do have to say here that nearly all the modern mass produced swept frames are pretty horrible and have devalued the use of that style of framing.
But getting back to the ormolu varnish; it is still used to matt down fresh gilding. Anyone who has ever gilded with real gold will know that the finished surface can be articially bright and brittle. You need this because all subsequent work on the gilding will substract from it's brightness. So the simplest finish used is a dilution of the standard RSG size. This will take some of the shine off the gold but preserve its brightness. Too many extra coats of size however will build up a layer of gelatine which can result in a glossy finish. To achieve a dead flat finish, a small amount of seedlac or light shellac is added to the size. It can also then be coloured with gamboge to give a pale yellow tint and some "dragon's blood" resin to add a red tint and even a bit of asphaltum to darken.
The ormolu varnish itself is not the patina found on antique frames. That patina is a further layer of dust, soot, tobacco, wax and human cells which combined with historic polishing to give the characteristic dry dusty appearance of well aged gilding.
So, is that the answer to your question?
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by Not your average framer »

I'm confused as well.
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Re: Hello from Corinna in Notts.

Post by prospero »

It's all very complicated isn't it? :cry: :lol: :sweating:
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