Lion sept 27th event

[jon buck]

Looks like a good day out, is anybody else going ? A good selection of speakers and demo`s . and a bit of lunch.

Jon

[Roboframer]

Erm ........ http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3635

Dermot, Mike (Welshframer) and me so far.

[Bagpuss]

I may well make the pilgrimage up to Birmingham on the 27th, it's been years since I've been there. I'll look forward to seeing you guys,
I'll wear my Bagpuss T-Shirt

regards,
Adam (B'Puss)

[Roboframer]

Cool - hey - who's up for a social the night before, or that night - same hotel - or (insert member's name here) ___________ ''s tent/caravan?

[Dermot]

OK which night and can I suggest Jury's Hotel on Broad St. , I stayed there last Feb due to a cancelled flight, it is very nice http://birminghamhotels.jurysinns.com/ the hotel we stayed for the Forum dinner was not very nice

Let me know as I will have to book another flight...

[Jonny2morsos]

I think Martin Harrold has done an excellent job in securing so many good speakers and demonstrators and I really would like to go but today it was confirmed by my wife's employer she can have that week off. So we are going to Egypt.

Any one care to have a go at persuading her to exchange the Red Sea for Brum?

John.

[WelshFramer]

<<So we are going to Egypt.>>

Any chance that Martin might change the venue?

[jon buck]

DOH. Didn`t see the other posts , sorry to duplicate . Anyway look forward to seeing you there.

[Bagpuss]

So who did go to the Open Day at Lion on Sunday ?
I was looking around at people and guessing what their Forum pseudonym might be but I didn't have a clue ...
I enjoyed the seminars, particularly Lyn Hall's and Sue McDonagh's

Apparently LION will not be at the NEC next year, concentrating on events like this instead, it would be a shame if other 'names'
follow suit and don't bother with the Spring Fair next year

I don't know if you saw me but I was the one wearing a full length black leather trench coat, a beige coloured fedora (with feather) and some black patent leather
shoes with a cuban heal ... you couldn't have missed me !

[Roboframer]

Well, we did - shame.

http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 5&start=20

[Martin Harrold]

Just to clarify, it is currently our intention not to exhibit at Spring Fair International in February '10. Believe me, it has been a very hard decison, over which we've agonised for many months. We have always believed that a strong art and framing trade requires a strong annual trade show. We've supported it for more than 25 years, but over recent years there has been a steady decline in the number of visitors to the A&F section and a steady decline in the number of exhibitors. Some of you may remember the heady days of 300+ exhibitors.

The new show boss, Louise Young, who took over last March, is working very hard to right some of the wrongs inflicted on our section by her predecessors. It was they who carried on with some of the arrogant attitudes acquired when the show had an effective monopoly before the advent of the web. It was they who moved the A&F section to the wastes of Hall 12, against the advice of every single exhibitor.

Frankly, at the '09 show, we were lucky to talk with 120 visitors on average on each of the five days. Those kinds of numbers no longer justify the huge amount of time and expense we have to invest in preparing and manning the stand. It's a downward spiral, less exhibitors, less visitors, etc. And it's a spiral which is very, very, hard to reverse. Louise and her team are coming up with lots of ideas to help do that.

We showed last Sunday that people enjoy a wide range and an interesting mixture of seminars, demonstrations and displays. We did not get it all right, but we had very good feedback and we'll develop the concept further for the next one, at Lion South next May.

We've tried very hard over several years to encourage the Spring Fair organisers to put on something similar. Working with FATG, they did a pretty good job last year, but the physical facilities they feel able to provide do not fully match what is really needed. The West Coast Art & Framing Show in Las Vegas, in late January, is the show which sets the standard we must all aspire to. They typically have 1000+ framers booked into the training and seminars, who pay between $30 and $100 for each one.

Question - would UK framers pay for seminars and training? If they were to pay, then better technical and demonstration facilities could be provided, so they'd get more out of each session. And demonstrators and seminar leaders don't come cheap - why should they? Just £10 per person per seminar would enable us to do an even better job. Would you pay, say, £40 per head for a day of learning, to help you be more knowledgeable, more creative and more efficient? That is only a little more than what you should be charging per hour.

We don't criticise the Spring Fair or the organisers. They are operating in a changing and difficult market and they are working really hard to reverse the trend. We would encourage every framer and gallery owner to go along to the show next February. We're sure that you'll see a lot of interesting products and ideas and you'll learn things that will help you improve the creativity and efficiency of your businesses. If the decline in numbers is arrested and the show looks good, you can be pretty certain that we'll be back in 2011.

If Forumers organise some kind of meal or social event during the Spring Fair, let us know. We'd try to come along and might even buy a round!

[Roboframer]

Well, it's been two days and no response to your post Martin - maybe that itself answers some of questions/concerns?

I personally disagree that a strong art and framing trade requires a strong trade show - for me it's not about art and framing - forget the art - most framers know zip about art, me included - and what's on offer at the shows isn't art - it's (99%) REPRODUCED art; same applies to what's on offer in the only trade mags we have - ART business today and The PICTURE business. The physical framing articles in those mags is dismal - regards both quantity and quality - no disrespect the odd 'gem' turns up now and then - but I subscribe to PFM - as a lot of us do - and every issue contains gems - furthermore some of the authors get stuck in on The Grumble too, and if you venture to Vegas, there they all are giving it highly polished seminars in dedicated conference rooms - we are MILES behind.

Your company is not about art and at the show you are in a small % of framing suppliers - the vast majority of stall holders are publishers of repro prints that are dying a death with the likes of me who have moved on from them and are not interested in what the largest % of the stands are showiing.

At the last Spring Fair I attended (2008) I think I could count maybe five moulding suppliers - let's see - Simons, Arqadia, A&T, ..... struggling already now - .... Enrique whotsit (Lopez?) - yourself ..... any more anyone?

At WCAF - and I know the US is bigger, blah blah, there were about SIXTY - but it's still not proportionate, and it was in a HOTEL - not a National place.

I could go on but it's late - but regards forumers organising a meal/social event during the SF - it's happened for the past two SFs (My idea don't you know) and the only stall holder/demonstrator to attend, bar John (Scenes/Estlite) didn't come from Birmingham. Coventry, Glasgow or Dublin, but from Wisconsin USA!

A boot up the arse is what's needed and you have the right ideas

[birdman]

Martin it is good to see all the positive things you have to say and I am sorry that we missed the Lion Show, which appears to have been very warmly received.

As a framer I find it more difficult to justify attendance at the Spring Fair because as has been mentioned there is very little of relevance to me as a framer anymore. The number of suppliers I am interested in is reducing and the loss of Lion will not help. As you say it will be hard to reduce the trend of less visitors, less suppliers, less visitors. Many people have also commented on how little Birmingham did to encourage and facilitate the Spring Fair and its visitors.

My last two sorties to Birmingham have been mainly to meet fellow forum members and Jolly Good Framers. I enjoyed the socialising and it is worthy of note that our guest from the USA is very knowledgeable about the framing business but also has a good grasp of English beer and darts too.

Personally my intention is to try and visit WCAF or the one in Oz in the next couple of years and they would both be higher on my agenda than anything currently arranged in the UK. They have less relevance as regards suppliers but the seminars and ideas are what are worth going for and I think Roboframer would back me up on that.

What I believe we need is an independent organisation, company or individual who is capable of putting together something along the lines of WCAF that includes the seminars and the personalities to draw people in. I wonder if Ty Pennington is available? I would gladly pay to attend seminars if I knew I would come away feeling I had learnt something new, stimulating or useful.

I think the Guild and Spring Fair made a good start in 2008, but after the success of that first year it made no further progress and in some ways went backwards – who thought having the seminars in an open space in the middle of the show was a good idea? The Spring Fair organisers obviously didn’t ask for feedback or if they did they didn’t listen. But the Guild tried to do something positive.

What I would like to see is the PPFA in the UK taking a more proactive role as well and this could be done if the event was organised by someone neutral. That way we could get the best from both organisations who should be contributing to and supporting their members. The PPFA have the experience in the USA and could be instrumental in attracting over some of the speakers from WCAF. A good example would be Vivian Kistler who is both GCF and CPF Adv and who goes very happily to Australia to present seminars, etc. There are others who visit our fair shores too but they are rarely seen at the large events. Apart from framers forum dinners that is!

Well that’s my pennyworth and if you’re buying mine's a Guinness.

[Roboframer]

Personally my intention is to try and visit WCAF or the one in Oz in the next couple of years and they would both be higher on my agenda than anything currently arranged in the UK. They have less relevance as regards suppliers but the seminars and ideas are what are worth going for and I think Roboframer would back me up on that..

I certainly would Rolf!

I did buy some stuff though - two attach-eze guns with all the bits, which I took away, and $400 worth of flexible fillets from Franks Fabrics - shipped - (fixed price to UK for a certain sized box regardless of weight) and what a stall THAT was!

I took Baer Charlton's (He reps, or is an agent for Franks Fabrics) fabric wrapping class in Saratoga Springs NY 2007 - fabric wrapping is very popular in the US - so I wonder if it could raise just ONE UK framer's curiosity enough to cross the pond - what would happen if Baer came over and gave his class a few times during the Spring Fair.

There's a few more I could name that give classes and workshops on techniques that are very different to anything we see or read about in the UK.

Get 'em over!

[Martin Harrold]

Quick note:

I understand that FATG have persuaded Vivian Kistler to come over to do some seminars at Spring Fair. She's pretty good and almost worth a special trip.