What's the best for heating?

[Comfyjumper]

My workshop is at last finished after having the roof changed to flat and raised by two feet to accommodate my Smart CMC, so now I'm asking for opinions on heating......oil filled rads or electric rads......the workshop is fully insulated and double glazed (thanks to some acrylic sheet cut to size and fitted into the window frames) and the jury is out on what to choose. I realise the oil filled rad takes a while to heat up, but it would be on a timer switch. Any suggestions please?

[prospero]

Storage heaters are good for providing a steady background heat. Not cheap to buy and not cheap to install. But using night rate electric will be economical in the long term.

I like oil-filled rads. They are cheap as chips and chuck out a decent amount of heat. Don't take long to warm a room up. They are also safe as no exposed elements. Portable and no installation required. Good for dusty environments with combustible materials around. As for running costs, well hot is expensive whichever way you slice it.

[Not your average framer]

I try not to use any more heating than absolutely essential. The bigger electric bills always arrive during the slowest time of the year for cashflow! I make good use of thermal vests, long johns and thermal socks. Thermal socks should not be overlooked as they make a very real difference!

I have one storage radiator near the front of the shop, it's a bit of a relic, so not as efficient as the latest models and runs out of heat before the end of the working day, so I try to get an early start to make the most of the heat while it's there.

I have a small fan heater which I use sometimes, but the thermostat is set so that with it set to the maximum power level that it reaches temperature and turns it's self off very quickly.

I don't think that fan heaters are a cost effective way of heating, but I also have a heater which looks like an oil filled radiator (but it is not). I use this quite near to the fan heater, so that the fan heater helps to warm things up fairly quickly, but after this the heat from the other heater prevents the thermostat on the fan heater from cutting in again.

I avoid using the storage heater until I really need to, as early on there are still some days that are warmer than others, but eventually there are no warm days at all and then it's time to switch on the storage radiator. If I need to do any dry mounting, I can often time this for after the storage radiator has run out of heat, as my old Ademco dry mounting press really does kick out quite a lot of heat. Even after switching off, it carries on kicking out the heat for a long time.

[IFGL]

I have seen prints framed using corner mounts with a 2mm expansion gap ripple simply because they were framed in a cold workshop, then hung in a warm living room, the temperature difference was too much.

We conducted a series of experiments with papers and the temperature they are framed in, one A3 photo paper grew 3mm from cold to room temperature.

This is why we keep our shops and workshop adequately heated even at night, we think this is best for the items left in our care.

[IFGL]

We have central heating in one shop and the workshop costing £100 per month in gas, we have storage heaters and blow heaters in the other shop this also costs around £100 per month.

bear in mind glass cuts better when it is not cold, mouldings cut better when not cold especially those with gesso, less chipping less work saves time.

[simoonez]

I'm in the same process at the moment - trying to heat the workshop. Our old space was an old milking parlour that got very cold. Glass would just shatter when we tried cutting it, I was amazed it had such an effect.
We had an energy advisor come round who said our best bet if installation money was no object was air source conditioning units. They're 400% efficient - every unit of energy (in electricity) in gives 4 out in heat. It would cost me £4000 to install though. Our space (about 900ft square) is an uninsulated, vaulted ceiling brick building where all the heat whistles out the roof. Not audibly, but it is cold.
The other option he gave was gel filled heaters which are 100% efficient with ceiling fans to blow the heat back down at a cost of around £600. I made it through last winter - just - with a gas powered space heater but they're really expensive - it could go through a £70 bottle of gas a day if it was cold. I reckon the air source heaters would earn themselves back in one winter in comparison to the gas heater.
Or you could of course put on a comfy jumper...

[prospero]

I ordered another oil-filled rad yesterday. 32 quids eeeeebay.

[Tudor Rose]

It's not just boards and glass that are affected, tapes and glues also won't work so efficiently at lower temperatures. Plus it makes it a much nicer experience for customers to come into a space which is, if not toasty warm, at least pleasant to be in. It is all well and good wearing loads of layers yourself, but your customers might not be quite so prepared.

We have 1600 square feet of space to heat with minimal insulation and a very high roof height. We have a gas bin heater in the main area plus ceramic wall heaters in other areas where the roof is much lower and we can enclose the heat a bit more. It uses plenty of gas and it is one of the ugliest heaters you've ever seen, but over the past 8 years it is the most efficient thing we have found for heating. The most important thing to remember if using gas to heat the space though is to also have dehumidifiers going. Not only does it dry the air a bit which makes it easier to heat, but it means you aren't chucking so much moisture into the air to be absorbed by your board materials. We have two going whenever the heater is on and we are always amazed by just how much water we are extracting every day.

[Moondoggy]

Apparently, bottled gas heaters (also goes for paraffin, etc) produce a gallon of moisture for every gallon of fuel that they burn. Not good for your equipment, stock or the building.

[IFGL]

yup we also run dehumidifiers

[Graysalchemy]

Well in 2000sqft of double height industrial space then heating is difficult. In my old workshop I used infrs red heaters in the area I would be working in. They are OK but don't heat the building just you and were you are. My new workshop is more modern insulated and pretty much draft excluded. One of the other units uses a portable gas blast heater which does heat up the space in a very short space of time.

But I think thermals jumpers and fur lined rigger boots are going to be the order of the day soon.

[Tudor Rose]

Apparently, bottled gas heaters (also goes for paraffin, etc) produce a gallon of moisture for every gallon of fuel that they burn. Not good for your equipment, stock or the building.

Hence the running of dehumidifiers at the same time! And until/unless someone comes up with a better solution for heating a large area reasonably economically, it is the only solution to be had. We tried other options in the first few years of business and they just weren't up to the job. We were still cold, the workshop was still cold and the electricity bill was astronomical. The gas bill isn't nice, but its better than the alternative.

[prospero]

Apparently, bottled gas heaters (also goes for paraffin, etc) produce a gallon of moisture for every gallon of fuel that they burn. Not good for your equipment, stock or the building.

I'll endorse that. I tried a gas heater in my old workshop and the back (greyboard. ) of one picture swelled up so it bowed out about 3 inches. And it wasn't tight in the frame to start with. The place had visible fog inside. That's when I stopped using gas. And greyboard.

[Not your average framer]

I have a basic and fairly small dehumidifier. It did not cost a lot to buy, but it has proved to be a very good investment. The running cost is extremely low, but by removing humidity from the air, it makes the building feel less cold and also stops the shop windows from getting misted up, which can be a problem in our rather old building in the colder months. I am often surprised how much water it removes from the air and how quickly the water tank fills up and needs to be emptied.

Our building is so old that we are not sure how old it is, but we know that the building was already there before the early 1800's. It has no damp course and in places the base of the walls are boxed in to hid the rising damp problems. Many shops in our town are of a similar age and have the same problems. The back room has cobb walls and was where the local dairy kept their horse and is so cold that heating it has almost no effect. I keep the door to the back room closed in cold weather, to stop the heat loss from the rest of the building.

[Pro-Am]

And until/unless someone comes up with a better solution for heating a large area reasonably economically

Move to Australia, in Summer I try to do my framing early in the morning or later in the afternoon because it gets near impossible to work in our upstairs area, even with the air con going at top speed. Iron roofs are a problem down here, if I have to do something in the middle of a hot day I have a tea towel handy to wipe my face so I don't have sweat dripping on the work.

[Steve N]

Moondoggy wrote

"Apparently, bottled gas heaters (also goes for paraffin, etc) produce a gallon of moisture for every gallon of fuel that they burn. Not good for your equipment, stock or the building."

Very true, also under my insurance I'm not aloud to have them in the building

[IFGL]

You could try a couple of these in your worshop.

Candle Powered Air Heater - DIY Radiant Space Hea…: http://youtu.be/nzKbFzUEWkA

[Moondoggy]

We have the same problem as Mark (Not your average framer).
Our house, the oldest part, was built around 1780. No damp proof course, have to use lime mortar and other breathable, traditional materials. The problem is, the previous owners didn't follow the rules and we have a tedious, in some cases near impossible, job of reversing the work that they did, to allow the building to breathe again. Old places are designed to be damp and is not a problem if they are allowed to breathe. The problem here is modern building materials, building standards and, so called surveyors don't allow for this and cause more problems than they solve.
I think of our house as a very old lady, with lots of aches, pains and wrinkles. You wouldn't expect her to have face lifts and boob jobs. If she did, she would look ridiculous and it would create problems.
Any way, we too have a dehumidifier in our lounge, which was a Wheelwright's workshop in the 1800's (my workshop is attached to this). Both rooms are extremely cold, the dehumidifier needs emptying every day (2 litres of water), sometimes twice. We have mains gas central heating and so are not adding to the moisture problem.
Dry buildings are cheaper to heat, moisture in the air makes your heating much more inefficient.
Our dehumidifier is the modern type that uses a desiccant instead of a refrigerant, and it puts out a fair amount of heat, which helps with heating the room.
A good layer of fat round your body helps. Problems is, it makes everything you use that bit further away from you.

[Otters Pool Studio]

Moondoggy wrote

Very true, also under my insurance I'm not aloud to have them in the building

I came across this recently when reviewing insurance policies. One company downright refused to insure us if we had any portable heating equipment in use.

[StevenG]

Good thread & it's getting to that time of year again that heating will be an issue. I was looking to get a small dehumidifier as there is that certain chill in the air and things can be cold to the touch (don't want any bending mounts/art!!) but it's not that simple, there seems to be 10 million different types & looking at the reviews on Amazon is no help - any review I've read will tell me that the item is fantastic, highly recommended just to be followed by a review telling me how terrible it is. Anyone with any real world reviews able to make a recommendation? My workshop is fairly small so I don't need something that would get delivered by a Chinook or the like.
Cheers
Steven