Looking to start up

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Ruffdog64
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Looking to start up

Post by Ruffdog64 »

I`m sorry but it`s post about starting up a picture framing business and what do i need? i`m a carpenter of 30 years and am doing some research into starting up a home based framing business and a want to see what basic costings will be, i have a workshop( garage ), many thanks Harvey
Jamesnkr

Re: Looking to start up

Post by Jamesnkr »

I'm sure not everybody will agree with the following, but it's my take on things. All prices I'm thinking second hand equipment.

You can get going with some elderly machinery for about £1,000 if you keep your eye on eBay and are prepared to wait, but you'll probably need to spend twice that or a bit more. I'm sure it would be possible to spend up to 10k on setting up if you buy brand new and try hard...

Morso mitre guillotine (this is not optional, there is no alternative!): £500-£1200
Underpinner: £200-£1500
Compressor for underpinner if you've chosen a pneumatic one (pneumatic recommended if using hardwoods or just like an easy life, but plenty of people use manual underpinners) £150
Mount cutter £300-600
Glass & board cutter (Keencut 5000 or similar) £500-£1000 (you can do without this but it will make life easier)
Sundry tools £100-£250
Sundry stock items for making frames, say £100-£500

Framing course to learn how to mount artwork and make frames. Up to £500. Optional, you can learn most of everything you need to know from the 'net but it all depends on how quickly you want to get going and how easy you find it to use the net for learning. Pretty much everything you need to know about conservation framing is on the 'net but it is not necessarily that easy to find. You'll probably find half a day with somebody on 1:1 tuition will suit you well.

N.B. If you are self employed then a framing course (like all other courses for learning a new skill) is not tax deductible; if you work through a company then the tax situation is better as it is tax deductible for the company and not a taxable benefit in kind on you.
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prospero
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by prospero »

Having carpentry skills is an asset. But there is a lot more to it than just making frame rims. :)

It's important to learn how to handle artwork, how the assess it as to the correct framing techniques.


Carpentry will come in handy when you are setting up your workshop. Knock up your own benches, storage
racks and all that....

I reckon you could get a good basic equipment set up + a few sundries for about £3K. You can buy other gizmos
as you go along.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by Not your average framer »

Hello Harvey and welcome to the forum,

I know Yately where you are based, because my sister used to live there. Going back to when I knew it, it was a small town with not a massive amount of shops and a reasonable number of sixties and seventies newly built housing.

I don't know what it is like now, but when I knew it, there were plenty of young professional couples living there. I would guess that this is probably still a well money'd locality and if as I suspect that a small town like that does not have a framing shop, then this could be a good move for you.

Lyn Hall who is one of the big names in the Fine Art Trade Guild used to have her business (Fringe Arts Framing) based in Yately, so I would say that someone with her reputation and would not have been based there if there was not enough up-market business available in that location.

Fortunately for you, she has moved from Yately to Searle, near Guildford, so no longer in your locality. Also she operated from home, so if she sucessfully operated from home in the same town, then it looks reasonable for you to consider doing likewise.

I would suggest starting up with all manual equipment, to keep costs and cash flow as favorable as possible. A Morso is a must and I would buy a good secondhand one.

As you are operating from your garage, space will be saved by buying a wall mounted glass and board cutter, I use a Keencut System 4000, these are an older machine, but they are build like tanks and there is not all that much to go wrong with them and I would say that the seem to go on for ever. Being an older piece of equipment it should not cost to much to buy one.

There are plenty of good makes of secondhand underpinners that you can pick up at good prices secondhand. Before you consider looking and buying one, there's bound to be members of this forum who have used used the same type and willing to advise you if you ask.

For a mountcutter, you won't go to far wrong with a Keencut Ultimat, Ultimat gold, or Futura. If you are thinking about getting the Ultimat, then give Keencut a phone call to check if they still stock spares for this machine.

I hope that things will go well for you.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
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Keith Hewitt
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by Keith Hewitt »

How encouraging to see a newbie wanting to start, just like in the 80's and 90's :clap:
I wish you every success with your ambition.
Let us know how you progress.
And when you have your kit, I strongly suggest you get a trainer to come to you, and teach you on your equipment
Its not a cost, its an investment
And subscribe to Art + Framing Today - £33 per year 5 issues. www.fineart.co.uk
Cheers :beer:
Keith Hewitt
I have visited distributors and framers in 90 countries - no two are the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XtrrWooYdg
Ruffdog64
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by Ruffdog64 »

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply, i`ve certainly got a lot to think about.
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MITREMAN
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by MITREMAN »

Training courses
http://www.framersequipment.co.uk/training_framing.htm
All you need to know about basic framing the correct way, following the Fine Art Trade Guild standards. :D
MITREMAN
Jan Stanlick GCF Picture Framing Consultant & Teacher
Working in association with Framers Equipment Ltd, Northampton http://www.framersequipment.co.uk
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Steve Goodall
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by Steve Goodall »

even more training...

https://www.wessexpictures.com/commerci ... chool.html

...take a look.
It's not a secret - I work for Wessex Pictures & I'm here to help!!! you can email me at steveg@wessexpictures.com or call me on 07585 138566
marble matt
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Interests: Picture framing , printing , manip
Location: Falkirk

Re: Looking to start up

Post by marble matt »

Hi all, I may be looking to start up with a similar situation to Ruffdog starting off from home or a garage and have a couple of additional questions, if i can just highjack this thread.

As less and less people carry cash these days, is everyone using card terminals to accept payments.
How important is vacumn press or heat press to begin with as no one really mentioned that above, or is just double sided boards to keep artwork flat when requested.
Machinery, glass/boards and sundries are a no brainer, but what quantity of mouldings would be a decent start (how many sample options of moulding and mount colour to offer the customer)

cheers
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prospero
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by prospero »

1] Card terminals are essential. No going to the bank to deposit cheques and cash. Just press a few buttons
and it goes into your account. (in a couple of days.. :wink: ). No-brainer. There are other options such as a
PayPal reader linked to your phone. Once only purchase of the reader but rates are higher than the typical
rented terminal. But whatever you go for it saves a lot of time filling in slips and counting cash. And if your bank
is a ways away...... My nearest is a 20 mile round trip. :cry:

2] A vacuum press is very useful, but depends on the type of framing. If you are going to take on anything then you need one.
Big as you have room for or can afford. Great for mounting huge no-value posters.
I should mention that on the whole it is best to avoid dry-mounting if you can. Generally 'fine art' should not be stuck down.
If people ask you to flatten stuff, beware. It's not your problem. Take what you are given and do the best you can. There is a fine
line where you step over into restoration territory. That's a whole different kettle of fish and not for the inexperienced. :roll:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
marble matt
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by marble matt »

Thanks for the advice prospero, looks like card payment is definitely the way to go to receive payments,

I'm contemplating biting the bullet and buying a new air op underpinner (to guarantee reliability) from the start, Alfamacchine U300 from Lion would be an option but a bit pricey, or the CASSESE 2 UNI what other options are there.
Jamesnkr

Re: Looking to start up

Post by Jamesnkr »

Excellent idea IMO to buy a decent underpinner. Just two thoughts:

1. If you buy new and decide it's not for you, then you'll have lost a fair chunk on the equipment.
2. You're buying bottom of the range pneumatic pinners; you may find them a bit restricted and wish you'd bought a better one.
i The U300 is restricted to mouldings 60mm wide (although it claims to be able to put pins in 80mm apart, don't quite get that). You might find that a bit limiting.
ii The Minigrafs are engineered like tanks (I have an elderly one). They have double pistons to ensure symmetry. That said, I wonder how often a framer with a Cassese looks at his frame and thinks 'it would have been better with two pistons'.
iii With the next Minigrafs up (and they're £2k, not 1k) the frame is held in place whilst the pinning machinery moves around it. With the U300 the pinning machinery is stationary and you have to move the frame backwards and forwards.

What about refurbished? Mark Thornton's always been very helpful to me, he's nothing listed on his website but probably worth giving a call:

https://www.underpinner-spares.co.uk/co ... -equipment
The Common Framer
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by The Common Framer »

Hi

I set up from scratch 3 years ago but in a shop. I bought mostly second hand but did also buy a pneumatic underpinner and later, a second Hand MATPRO 120 pneumatic mount cutter which was the best investment I ever made.

I agree - £2000 - £3000 secondhand kid should be a good start.

I also did a 1 wk training course.

So far so good !

If you want to chat -give me a bell at The Horsell Framing Company

cheers

MAtt
marble matt
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Re: Looking to start up

Post by marble matt »

Jamesnkr wrote:Excellent idea IMO to buy a decent underpinner. Just two thoughts:

1. If you buy new and decide it's not for you, then you'll have lost a fair chunk on the equipment.
2. You're buying bottom of the range pneumatic pinners; you may find them a bit restricted and wish you'd bought a better one.
i The U300 is restricted to mouldings 60mm wide (although it claims to be able to put pins in 80mm apart, don't quite get that). You might find that a bit limiting.
ii The Minigrafs are engineered like tanks (I have an elderly one). They have double pistons to ensure symmetry. That said, I wonder how often a framer with a Cassese looks at his frame and thinks 'it would have been better with two pistons'.
iii With the next Minigrafs up (and they're £2k, not 1k) the frame is held in place whilst the pinning machinery moves around it. With the U300 the pinning machinery is stationary and you have to move the frame backwards and forwards.

What about refurbished? Mark Thornton's always been very helpful to me, he's nothing listed on his website but probably worth giving a call:

https://www.underpinner-spares.co.uk/co ... -equipment

Thanks for that James, I'm on his list now for a refurbished machine should one become avaialble.


If you want to chat -give me a bell at The Horsell Framing Company

cheers

MAtt
cheers Matt, I'll take you up on that next week.
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