Making paint chip

Discuss Picture Framing topics.

PLEASE USE THE HELP SECTION
WHEN SEEKING OR OFFERING HELP!
Jamesnkr

Making paint chip

Post by Jamesnkr »

How do you do this? I'm pretty certain that this is a recentish frame. How would one reproduce the deep pits in the paint?

Thanks
corner.jpg
corner.jpg (932.5 KiB) Viewed 23468 times
vintage frames
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Making paint chip

Post by vintage frames »

It still looks a bit older than you suppose.
They've used quite a few different techniques her to achieve that effect. If I assume the finish is black shellac over a clay base, they would have rubbed wax over the base layer and then painted the shellac over this. Once that is dry, distressing can begin. It's always best to start with the big stuff - knocking the surface with a sharp stone or other, then going on to smaller nicks with the edge of a chisel. Then begin pulling off the paint with some parcel tape and along the sharp edges of the gilding.
I'm guessing they may also have used a blow-lamp for the central section. Have a look at this guy's Instagram feed - go back a few weeks to see him doing the same. Really good stuff there.
https://www.instagram.com/preussenfritzivon/
Affordable Gilding Course for Professional Framers-https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
poliopete
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon 04 Apr, 2016 7:13 am
Location: The Wash
Organisation: Annie Lou Fine Framing
Interests: Caring for my wife, Picture Framing and Natural History

Re: Making paint chip

Post by poliopete »

Thank you so much for that Instagram feed Vintage. I have never seen any thing like it, as if the frames were not impressive enough, that wall display of chevs' was unbelievable.

How do you find stuff like that?

Peter
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Making paint chip

Post by prospero »

I've done similar by blasting a layer of thick, wet paint with a hot air gun. The paint will blister into bubbles.
Wetter the paint, the bigger the blisters. Let it dry completely and the pop the bubbles. You can do this
on several coats. Doing it on dry gesso produces more extreme results. :?

Needs a bit of practice. :wink:
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Not your average framer »

What Properro says is true, it is possible to get some level of control over the results according to the type of paint used, or by adding various ingredients into the paint, but nobody who does this sort of thing appears to be following any common technique, or formula.

I would suggest that to some degree it should be possible to control the size of the blisters, or blow outs in the paint by various cunning methods. I have found that some of the chalk based paints can be less likely to blister when heat is applied, compared to acrylic paints. This makes these chalk based paints difficult to blister at all using heat once the paint has already fully dried.

This then creates the interesting possibility of creating defined positions where a blow out will occur by placing a substance under the the paint which when heated will change state from a solid to gas by introducing enough heat. As the already dried chalk based paint shows little tendancy to blister with heat the only areas likely to blow out are caused by the expanding substance below the chalk based paint.

I have been meaning to try this for some time, but at this point in time, I am still yet to do so. However, I have obtained a small pot of tallow, with the intention of giving this a try. Tallow is solid at room temperature and would need to be heated to convert it to a liquid in order to apply it. Controlling the amount that you apply and the size of the area of application is something I have yet to work out, hence the lack of progress so far.

The idea requires the tallow to cool and return to it solid state before painting over it and after a suitable thickness of paint has been applied and fully set, then enough heat is applied to vaporize the tallow and create enough pressure by doing so to blow a hole in the paint above the vaporized tallow. That is the basic thinking behind the idea, but there is a lot to be worked out before this is likely to be a working technique.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Framemaker Richard
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed 02 Jul, 2014 5:06 pm
Location: Worcestershire
Organisation: framemaker
Interests: Antique frames

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Framemaker Richard »

This is probably my favorite IG feed at the moment:

https://www.instagram.com/tsmithfinishing/

Another level of work, if you're into antique replicas anyway...
I believe he has some working connection with the IG that Vintage Frames posted.

As for chips, I think the best way is replicating chips, using chains, screwdrivers, stone, anything really. Just finding the right tool to get the type of chip you're after.
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Making paint chip

Post by prospero »

The good old ripple paint is as good as anything for blistering. :D

If you put a dark coat (as in the OP) on top of the blistered surface and rub it back with a
touch of dark wax the effect is of gesso that has gone manky. Add a dusting of rottenstone
and it's even better.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Jamesnkr

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Jamesnkr »

vintage frames wrote:It still looks a bit older than you suppose.
I think the inner and outer bits are new. The middle flat bit of the cassetta has the air of being make from an old barn door or suchlike. I still think the chipped paint finish with the big holes in it is more likely to have been recently done.

NYAF, I recall previously your suggesting putting blobs of starch paste which would retain the water, and painting over them and giving them a blast with the airgun.

Nice IG feeds, Richard!

Frame at Sothebys, by the way, in their Mod Brit Sale on view at the moment. Some really nice frames there. Here are a couple more. One with paint that really is peeling off, and another that is stacked and stacked and stacked - and with some nice wavy gesso.
Attachments
corner3.jpg
corner3.jpg (182.99 KiB) Viewed 23367 times
corner4.jpg
corner4.jpg (168.63 KiB) Viewed 23367 times
Jamesnkr

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Jamesnkr »

There goes what's left of the day, after discussing the election, reading @preussenfritzivon .

What's he done here? I need to make a frame like this. White paint, brown paint dragged over, scratch it, rottenstone(?!)?
in distress.JPG
in distress.JPG (122.62 KiB) Viewed 23363 times
He posts his bandsaw blades a bit later.
blades.JPG
blades.JPG (88.8 KiB) Viewed 23363 times
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Making paint chip

Post by prospero »

It's easy to overthink that sort of finish. Just slap on a few layers of different coloured paint with a pale layer to finish
and the sand it back. when it looks right, touch of wax - done.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Jamesnkr

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Jamesnkr »

That IG feed has taken me on a distraction. Look at these:

http://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-mo ... collection
poliopete
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon 04 Apr, 2016 7:13 am
Location: The Wash
Organisation: Annie Lou Fine Framing
Interests: Caring for my wife, Picture Framing and Natural History

Re: Making paint chip

Post by poliopete »

Hi Jamesnkr

After viewing those frames in Sir Elton's home shown in that IG feed makes me realise I will never become a "proper" frame maker even if I get another life time of framing. (insert very sad smilie)

Peter
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Not your average framer »

Jamesnkr wrote:What's he done here? I need to make a frame like this. White paint, brown paint dragged over, scratch it, rottenstone(?!)?
Yes, I like these frames too! Nice muted colours, quite understated and superbly executed. A nice moulding profile too.

I also really like the combed gesso effect on the stacked moulding frame in your previous post and I am tempted to do some thing along the same lines when I get the chance. It's a brilliant effect and since I bought a set of metal graining combs some time back, I'm itching to do something special with them, I think you have just supplied the necessary inspiration. Perhaps Rose & Hollis PP701 turned on it's side will produce a similar result.

Thanks for showing these images.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
Jamesnkr

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Jamesnkr »

prospero wrote:It's easy to overthink that sort of finish. Just slap on a few layers of different coloured paint with a pale layer to finish
and the sand it back. when it looks right, touch of wax - done.
I'm struggling to find a suitable brown paint. I was in B&Q and bought a sample pot of their brownest brown thinking it would have plenty of pigment in it for diluting with ripple paint. Too right it's full of pigment; the only problem is it is the wrong sort of pigment as it turns a really bright pink; who'd have thought it. Any recommendations? Brown is a difficult colour, F&B 'Mahogany' is a lovely rich brown but turns purple when diluted.

Thanks.
User avatar
prospero
Posts: 11492
Joined: Tue 05 Jun, 2007 4:16 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Making paint chip

Post by prospero »

For a nice manky brown Raw Umber acrylic + ripple paint is a good mix. But you can only get it so dark.
It's more of a misty warm grey. Raw Umber + Titanium White acrylic, heavy on the brown, is better.
There is a lot of white in the ripple. If you used Burnt Umber then it will go very pinky.

Ripple+ Raw Umber with a dragged wash of diluted Raw Umber is a good combo.
Watch Out. There's A Humphrey About
Jamesnkr

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Jamesnkr »

Thanks, that's what the girl in Cass Art said. When I told her what I was going to mix it with she got all excited and said she would hop on a bus to the nearest Wickes. ;)

Mark, here's another picture of the combed gesso. It was curved on the outside too. I'm not aware of any mouldings on the market, but it's quite like the one that Benhen was looking for on this thread. https://www.theframersforum.com/viewtop ... 46#p109846
IMG_7302.JPG
IMG_7302.JPG (768.56 KiB) Viewed 23192 times
And some more frames from the same sale. I particularly liked the one in the first two pictures. The next one (with the glasses, for scale) looks like it was taken out of a skip. The one after has got really pretty thin streaks along and across it, in blue and pink. And the final one is a really nice profile that seems to have been quite widely used before the war.


IMG_7304.JPG
IMG_7304.JPG (852.11 KiB) Viewed 23192 times
IMG_7303.JPG
IMG_7303.JPG (915.57 KiB) Viewed 23192 times
Attachments
IMG_7300.JPG
IMG_7300.JPG (926.01 KiB) Viewed 23192 times
IMG_7301.JPG
IMG_7301.JPG (877.32 KiB) Viewed 23192 times
IMG_7299.JPG
IMG_7299.JPG (1.67 MiB) Viewed 23192 times
vintage frames
Posts: 1349
Joined: Tue 12 Jun, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: West Wales
Organisation: https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
Interests: Making picture frames
Contact:

Re: Making paint chip

Post by vintage frames »

Some nice frames there. A lot of those painted finishes are still popular today for contemporary art - two of the best makers here are Framemaker Richard and Prospero.
The last moulding is what the art dealers call an O'Mahoney frame ( pronounced 'Marney by the English born artist but should really be pronounced Oh-Mah-ony if you come from Ireland - I do.)
I used to make a lot of those .... maybe they thought it was in the genes.
Affordable Gilding Course for Professional Framers-https://www.dermotmcardle.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/dermotmcardle/
Not your average framer
Posts: 11013
Joined: Sat 25 Mar, 2006 8:40 pm
Location: Devon, U.K.
Organisation: The Dartmoor Gallery
Interests: Lost causes, saving and restoring old things, learning something every day
Location: Glorious Devon

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Not your average framer »

Hi James,

Thanks for showing these photos. I for one appreciate you showing examples like this. I can't tell you how much I value seeing nice examples of old frames to inspire me. When I get the chance, I will make some chevrons based on some of these. These will mainly for my own enjoyment, but you never know, maybe a customer will ask me to produce a frame like one of these frames.

It's surprising how many old style frames can still be recreated (all be it using modern mouldings) by stacking mouldings which look as near as possible to the original. Of course there will be differences, but for customers who have never seen the original, this is never an issue. They choose the frame from the sample chevron and that's what the frame will look like when it's made.

I just love doing the stacked frames and the handfinishing and the fact that customers pay me to do this is a bonus.
Mark Lacey

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Experience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”
― Geoffrey Chaucer
poliopete
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon 04 Apr, 2016 7:13 am
Location: The Wash
Organisation: Annie Lou Fine Framing
Interests: Caring for my wife, Picture Framing and Natural History

Re: Making paint chip

Post by poliopete »

Just like to add my thanks to everyone who contributed so practically to this thread.

Definitely in my top ten of the most interesting and inspiring discussions on :clap: :clap: this excellent forum.

Peter :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Jamesnkr

Re: Making paint chip

Post by Jamesnkr »

Mark, they're not (all) old frames. The combed gesso is newish. The massively stacked gilded/oak frame isn't old. The one with the spectacles for scale is probably 1930s-1950s. The penultimate one, round a lovely Christopher Wood isn't old. The last is 1930s (almost certainly), because:

Dermot, interesting you have a name for it. Google doesn't, needless to say, recognise it. Eric Ravilious (who died tragically aged 39 in an aeroplane of Coastal Command off Iceland, he was a war artist) was very keen on them... in so far as there was a big exhibition of his work at Dulwich Picture Gallery a couple of years ago and very many of his paintings were in original O'Mahoney frames. Hence my dating it to the 1930s. The one pictured is (a rather battered one) that is round an Edward Bawden, and I've subsequently seen several of his pictures in them too. So - as they lived in Great Bardfield in Essex I was beginning to think of it as a Great Bardfield Frame. Just for future reference, do you know anybody with a jig already set up for the moulding? And what is the wood pictured; they're always in the same, rich, close-grained timber.
Post Reply