Float mounting very large pictures

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Jamesnkr

Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Jamesnkr »

Just wondered what people do. Pass-through hinges in mountboard are hugely time-consuming. The hedgehog method is fine for small things, but big things you end up with something rather floppy and some reinforcement is required behind. How do people do this reinforcement?

Pass-through hinges are a lot easier if done through paper, and the paper can then be stuck down to board. But that rather restricts the choice of 'mount board'.

Thanks
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by prospero »

If people want things floated they should employ a bit of forethought. Such as pre-mounting the substrate before
painting on it. Otherwise if it's floppy it will stay floppy. :(

I would have thought a big thing just requires more/stronger hinges. :roll:
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Framie »

For the past year I have refused to float mount anything and haven't lost a job yet. I hate the way the paper goes when float mounting, after a few years most things look awful.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Jamesnkr »

prospero wrote:Otherwise if it's floppy it will stay floppy. :(
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. If you hedgehog something that is basically a full sheet of mountboard, then once you have reassembled it, and taped the fallout back to the window, you have something that isn't structurally sound. If you pick up the mountboard then it will bend where you've cut and taped it. I glue another piece of mountboard to the back (with dots of glue in structurally significant places) but wondered what other people do and whether I was missing something.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by prospero »

OK....

Using dots is basically the same as using hinges. Except not reversible and unlike hinges there is no 'give'.
If you are going to glue it you may as well glue the entire surface.

The premise of floating a large, heavy piece is not a happy proposition. But that is the artist's problem not
yours. If it absolutely had to be done it would need mounting to a solid board and that in turn fixed to a
'cradle' made from wooden slats - with cross pieces for max rigidity. This frame can then be screwed to a backing
board. Not ideal because you have altered the original state of the piece. But sometimes to accommodate people
you have to compromise on the ideal.

Did that with a canvas board recently. The image was painted right up to the edge and a conventional frame was not
a option. The only alternative was to glue it to a cradle. It was also significantly curved with the cradling fixed. The result
was it was in a more stable state and could be removed from the frame, but it was permanently altered.

This practice generally is not the done thing. In certain cases it could seriously impact on the value of the piece.
Having said that, in a most cases it will make no difference. :lol: It is still best avoided though.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by louisesimon »

We float mount about 75% of jobs and even up to 1500mm we often use pass through hinges and have no problems. Only takes about five mins to mark, cut and pass the hinges through.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Steve N »

Framie wrote
"For the past year I have refused to float mount anything and haven't lost a job yet. I hate the way the paper goes when float mounting, after a few years most things look awful."


I make it known that I do not like doing them and the customer will have except the way it looks, it is beyond my control :head:

On large ones I do 2 cut outs , one smaller one in the centre and one larger further out, so one inside the other, do the inner first then the outer , I then glue a full size sheet to the back of the mount to add rigidity
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Jamesnkr »

louisesimon wrote:We float mount about 75% of jobs and even up to 1500mm we often use pass through hinges and have no problems. Only takes about five mins to mark, cut and pass the hinges through.
Wow! Are you using a CMC? And if not, how are you making the cuts? Or are you not using 1400 micron board? I'm really missing something here as when I've tried using pass-through it's taken me about five minutes per hole using a Stanley knife and left me with a hole with ragged edges.
prospero wrote:Using dots is basically the same as using hinges. Except not reversible and unlike hinges there is no 'give'.
Confused - me, or maybe I've confused you you! This is completely reversible (subject to removing the hinges from the picture). It's the back of the mountboard that I'm gluing to another piece of mountboard. I'm not gluing the picture to the board. So I use the hedgehog method to attach the picture to the fall out, and then tape the window to the fall out. This entire lump is then floppy around the edges and needs reinforcement. So this is what is attached to another piece of mountboard using glue.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by prospero »

Oh I have seen the light. :D....

I have now got the full drift.

So why not use thicker board for the support? 2mm is available in big sizes I think.... If not glue two
sheets of std thick together and hedgehog the whole thickness. Laminating boards like this is a bit of
a pain but the result is a good strong board resistant to warping and bending - as long as you keep it flat
while the glue dries.
And this will allow it to be un-hedgehogged easily if need be. :lol:
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Jamesnkr »

prospero wrote:I have now got the full drift.

So why not use thicker board for the support? 2mm is available in big sizes I think.... If not glue two
sheets of std thick together and hedgehog the whole thickness.
Not sure you have got the full drift yet... because that still leaves me with the same problem. The join between the window and the fallout is what I'm trying to reinforce. It's only a bit of sticky tape and it's bearing the weight of nearly an entire sheet of mountboard, plus the picture.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by vintage frames »

A quick way of cutting the slots on mountboard is to use a pair of sharp wood chisels and hammer.
Use a wider chisel than the tape for the two width cuts and a small chisel to cut out the sides. On a makeshift anvil of wood block and scrap mountboard, one whack per cut with the hammer should be enough.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by prospero »

Jamesnkr wrote:
Not sure you have got the full drift yet... because that still leaves me with the same problem. The join between the window and the fallout is what I'm trying to reinforce. It's only a bit of sticky tape and it's bearing the weight of nearly an entire sheet of mountboard, plus the picture.
Hmmm... What tape are you using? For max strength I would use wet tape.
If that doesn't hold it - nothing will.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Jamesnkr »

It's not the strength that worries me, it's the stiffness. i.e. I'm not worried that it's going to fall to pieces, just that it's going to sag.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by vintage frames »

I don't see why it should sag - assuming the board is well clamped inside the frame by the frame spacers. You could also add some extra support by gluing it a bit to the MDF backboard.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by poliopete »

At last some one with the bottle to suggest mdf to stiffen the sandwich. :clap:

I always use double stick tape and glue to adhere backing board to 2mm mdf, job done. :wink:

Yet another golden tip from vintage frames about cutting the slots with a chisel :clap: :clap: :clap:

I don't find pass through hinges a problem time wise but I would really like to know the secret of louisesimon speed :?:

James, as always enjoyed your post :D

Peter.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Jamesnkr »

I don't like the idea of an MDF backboard without an interleaving board anyway; there are gaps in the tape so you have no real barrier between the MDF and the picture. So as you're going to have a 'conservation' backing board you might as well bond it to that. Like I was doing.

Simon, I can see you will be giving masterclasses in this!
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by vintage frames »

If you're going to be fussy, then stick the board to some foam board and then stick that to the MDF...if you've any room left inside the frame!
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by Jamesnkr »

Well I do like your chisel trick. Thanks, Dermot. I like it even more with the way I've previously tried doing it, which is to use the mount cutter to cut the long edges of the hole and the chisel the short. Thanks to the ruler on the Mount Cutter, you can get them regularly spaced and absolutely in line (though I'm sure yours are absolutely in line anyway) . It also means the edges are neater. Moreover if the bevels go in the right direction then it allows your hinges to flow in the right direction.

Still think you should be using a backning board between the mount board and the MDF though...
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by prospero »

I agree with James' concerns on rigidity. You can't beat a bit of over-engineering. :D

I've never done pass though hinges using slots. On the large piece it's difficult to flip the thing over without
everything flapping about. Much easier to hedgehog it. You have more control.

On a large piece you could get a sheet of 6mm ply and cut the middle out so you can glue this to the outer portion
of the mounting board. Then you still have access to the back where you have taped the board dropout back in.
You have to be careful though. All this reinforcement can make the whole thing over heavy.
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Re: Float mounting very large pictures

Post by louisesimon »

We weight the artwork on the mountboard, put a pencil mark where each tab is. Then if it is to have 50mm border, set the scale on left of the mount cutter to 55mm then whizz around cuttting slots. Pass all the hinges through and get the borders even, then weight it again. Bring one side over the edge of the workbench and tape from underneath.
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