Best Paint

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RobP
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Best Paint

Post by RobP »

I have been using Everest Paint on my frames. I am told that the man who makes them has closed his business I still have some colours left but no black (which I use a lot of). I have tried a few other frame paints but none seem to be as good so I was just wondering what other people are using?
Many thanks
Robert
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prospero
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Re: Best Paint

Post by prospero »

Yes The Bingsters Brew was very good stuff. :D

I use artist's grade acrylics for top coating.

Wickes smooth ripple paint(only comes in white but you can colour it up to a point) and black acrylic gesso for basecoating and texturing.
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Re: Best Paint

Post by RobP »

Many thanks Prospero
Much appreciated.
I have tried a couple of different acrylics and some are better than others. I will try the wicks paint you suggest.
Thanks
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prospero
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Re: Best Paint

Post by prospero »

I use Winsor&Newton and Daler-Rowney brand acrylics. Avoid cheaper stuff. It generally is very weak and some are
soluble when dry so you add another coat and rub off the previous one.

The ripple paint acts a bit like gesso. Tinting it with acrylic paint will knock the whiteness off and make top coating easier.
You can only darken it so far. For dark colours the black gesso is maybe better but its not quite as good as ripple paint. Takes
longer to harden as well. You can sand the ripple paint to a nice smooth surface.
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Re: Best Paint

Post by JFeig »

Check with theatrical supply houses is you want milk paint. Note some is natural soy version and some has acrylic binders. It comes in quarts and gallons.
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Re: Best Paint

Post by Not your average framer »

I was fortunate to have spent five days training with Pete Bingham during 2005 and I was present while he was preparing a batch of his paints. The paints came from a commercial paint company and were mixed to his own specified colours, As far as I understood these paints were manufactured primarily for use on industrial buildings and this paint was particularly tough and durable.

It took Pete quite a long time finding a paint with the characteristics that he was looking for. The paint was acrylic based and dried to lovely matt finish, it was my impression that the paint contained a significant degree of solid matter and had a good level of opacity. At some time during the period I was using these Everest paints that I believe he changed his supplier for the clay red paint and I still preferred the earlier product.

Eventually, I concocted my own substitute for the early version by mixing an acrylic red masonary paint with a red chalk paint and this produced a paint with the same qualities, finish and durabilities as the original Everest clay red. If I had never used the Everest range of paints, I would not have much idea what I was looking for in such a paint.

I still think that my ultimate paint is probably a mix of a good quality acrylic paint mixed with a good quality chalk based paint, although this is not always the most convenient combination, because getting exactly what I want from local suppliers can be difficult and unnecessarily time consuming. I now very rarely drive around getting what I want, but instead order directly over the phone.

This not only is much cheaper, but also saves a significant amount of time as well. I like to buy any acrylic paints that are used regularly in 500ml quantities and buy the chalk paints that I use directly from the manufacturer as 100ml sample pots. The carriage charge that you incur from paint manufacturers is often quite a trivial amount and the delivery time tends to be really quick as well.
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Re: Best Paint

Post by GeoSpectrum »

I use valspar from B&Q. Test pots for £3 or larger quantities of white (5l) in the Trade rage which not is very good. I spray most of mine but on occasion I hand paint a tile red they do as a 'bole' underneath a gilt varnish. I use 600 ml spray cans for black.
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RobP
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Re: Best Paint

Post by RobP »

Dear All
Thank you for your really helpful pointers.
I may not try to mix my own paint quite yet but will defiantly try the other paints you have all suggested.
Thanks again
Robert
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prospero
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Re: Best Paint

Post by prospero »

What I would like is a big can of clear stuff that would act as a binder and mix in my own pigments.

I goooogled around a few times but never found the magic search criteria. There is any amount of info except
for where to get such a thing.

I'm thinking that you could get some dry pigment, which is fairly easy and mix you own stuff. Make it as thick as you
like and whatever colour. The subject is more involved though. Without being a chemist you are whistling in the dark
to some extent. If you are using the stuff professionally you have to be sure it won't self-destruct sooner or later.

Pete B. Used to make some Texture Paint under the Everest brand. It was great stuff, sort of a thick version of the normal
paint. It had one issue though. The shelf life was very short. Once the lid was off it went solid after a week or two.
It was not on the market for long. :(

When I get more time I think I may do some tests. I the meantime if anybody wants to have a dabble please post
any interesting results.
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prospero
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Re: Best Paint

Post by prospero »

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Re: Best Paint

Post by vintage frames »

You can also use just PVA diluted 50% to water.
Buying dry pigments then Cornellisons is the best but for painting frames, it's better to use earth colours and you can get these from,
https://www.goldleafsupplies.co.uk/.
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prospero
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Re: Best Paint

Post by prospero »

I wondered about PVA. I tried painting on a dried lump once and found acrylic paint doesn't adhere too well.
So if the process involves overcoating the PVA i'm a tad iffy about it. :roll:
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Re: Best Paint

Post by vintage frames »

Ah well, a dried lump of PVA is just a lump of plastic. PVA used neat will form an insoluble varnish, so that isn't what you're looking for.
As you say, dry pigments need a binder or glue to form a paint and PVA can do the job quite cheaply. If you do use PVA - mix the pigments in water first to get the colour right, then add in some diluted PVA. Not the other way 'round.
Too much binder gives a harsh brittle paint, too little and the pigments can brush off the surface - experiment!
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Re: Best Paint

Post by Not your average framer »

prospero wrote:https://www.pegasusart.co.uk/spectrum-m ... -medium.ir

That's the type of thing. :D
Yes, I agree 100%. Please be aware that whatever binder you choose to use, the ratio of pigment to binder is important, because there is a limit to the amount of pigment that can be mixed into a given amount of the binder. An inadequate amount of binder will result in a paint that is neither durable, or stable and that there must be sufficient free binder left to bond to the surface that you are painting onto. If that surface is a porous surface it will absorb a significant amount of binder, so there still needs to be enough binder left to bind the pigment after the surface has absorbed the amount of binder necessary to cope with the absorbency of the surface. Take care when watering down the binder, there are limits to how effective the binder will remain as it is diluted.

I am not saying that you cannot dilute the binder, just don't over do it. In time you do tend to get a feel for how much pigment vs binder vs water is o.k. When Pete Bingham originally wrote his book, he did refer to making paint using PVA, but later when he was producing his own paints these were acrylic based paints. I'm not able to say much about PVA based paints as I don't have much expirience of them, but I can say that top quality acrylic paints are extremely effective and quite durable. However, not all acrylic paints are exactly the same, some contain less solid pigment and more chemically based colourants and can be slightly sticky to the touch when dry and also a little less matt when dry. I like to counter this effect by mixing a fairly thick chalk paint into the acrylic paint to get that silky smooth matt finish when the paint has dried.

That silky smooth matt finish looks really authentic in comparison to the top quality italian produced factory finished and hand finished mouldings. Not long after I started my business, I got a large box of samples from the Renaissance rep, which I thought were really lovely and of superb quality, unfortunately I found most of them were less easy to sell at a high enougth profit margin. I still have these samples and many of these have formed the basis of the standards of finish that I aim for when hand finishing my own mouldings. There were also some itailian hand finished mouldings that I bought from a framing business that closed down which also influenced my a lot at the time.

Pigments will also mix well into the Polyvine dead flat wax finish varnish, with superb results and a lovely silky matt finish. The feel when running your hand across the finished result is also really nice. I have found that the Polyvine dead flat wax finish varnish is also extremely tough and durable. Having spent a whole five days training with Pete Bingham also helped me very considerably as well. Pete is now retired and has stopped running his business, but I think that he had a very significant effect teaching a whole generation of hand finishing framers.

For many of the purists, his approach in using modern materials and techniques did not match up to the traditional materials and techniques, but many of us who started with Pete's methods have since gone on further and leant to use the traditional materials and techniques, which it has to be said produce the standards by which all other hand finished frames should be judged.

At the very least, I think that a knowledge of what the real thing looks like is a good starting place for wanting to produce authentic looking hand finished frames and time spent looking round auction sale rooms to see what genuine distressing and patina on real antique furniture actually looks like is quite important too. The fact is that the current trend for creating shabby chic furniture, which is distressed with sandpaper does not look at all close to anything remotely authentic and has very little to do with real quality either.
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prospero
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Re: Best Paint

Post by prospero »

Yes. I'm singing from the same hymnbook Mark. :D

I mix up my own gilt varnish and I know too well that the varnish/goldpowder/white spirit ratio is crucial.
I usually pour half-a-jar of varnish and add gold a spoonful at a time and stir until it's the consistency of
treacle. Then add a wee dash of white spirit. Just enough to make it workable. Sometimes, for finishes
where you want a thin mist of gold over a mottled base I paint it with varnish only and dab in patches of
gold. The effect is very pleasing. Reminiscent of a bird's egg. This is where powder gilding wins out over
leafing. More scope for creative effects. Also a bit more idiot proof. :lol: If you go wrong you can fix it as
you can strip the varnish with white spirit without disturbing the (water-based) acrylic basecoat. Also easily
repair any dings the frame may collect on it's travels. Patching leaf finishes is very tricky if not impossible in
some cases.

But I digress.....

I miss Everest Red Clay in it's 'texture' form. Also the Antique Brown. You can bulk up ripple paint with powder
colour but the best you can do is make a series of pastel shades. Some of these work well, but if you
want a darker textured base then black gesso is the only option.
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prospero
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Re: Best Paint

Post by prospero »

Heavy textured ripple paint. :D

Image
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Re: Best Paint

Post by vintage frames »

Powder Gilding - what's that? Never heard of it...
Now, on the subject of ripple paint. I'm thinking of using it in a small loo extension I've built. The idea is to give some impression of texture on the wall, and fill up a bit of the plywood grain. Does it dry smooth or do the brushmarks show, as I don't want to have to do any sanding further?
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prospero
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Re: Best Paint

Post by prospero »

The silver on the above picture is powder gilded. :P

Ripple paint is made for disguising hairline cracks and small defects on walls. If you dilute it and use
multiple coats you can loose the brushmarks. Slap it on with a shovel and you can make textures.

As for sanding, it's sands very easily. Almost (but not quite) like real gesso. It's not as hard as acrylic gesso.
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