Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

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Nicole
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Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by Nicole »

When I have received picture frames in for reframing they often have a very narrow long pronged staple in the back that has been fired in at an angle and penetrates right into the mdf backboard making it quite difficult to remove. I was wondering which of the following staple guns might do the same job for me? The situation I would require it is when the backboard is level with the back of the moulding leaving no space to fire in a framers point because if you do then they are raised up at an angle look untidy and can easlily tear the sealing tape. Has anyone got either of these guns and can tell me if they are suitable for this job? One is three times the price of the other so I want to get it right.

Arrow PT-50 Pneumatic Staple Gun or Tacwise Air Staple Gun
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by pramsay13 »

I wouldn't use staples for the backs of frames, precisely because as you say they are difficult to remove.
When choosing a moulding I try and check if it will be suitable for the job in hand, i.e. if I need a double mount, or spacer etc.
If I'd got to the stage where I had made the frame and there really wasn't enough room to fire the points in I would lift off the backing board, fire points in after undermount, and then just tape the backing board in place.
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by Jamesnkr »

I think it's fair to say that those staple guns pre-date decent framers' points and guns.

If you use fluted board then you can squish it a bit.
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by prospero »

Stapling in the back is not a great idea. It's a quick shambolic lash-up method.

Use proper framer's points and you will go to heaven. :angel:
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by Not your average framer »

It's not really worth bothering with Arrow staplers and I don't know much about Tacwise, so I can't offer any meaningful comment on these. The main stapler used for fixing backing boards is a narrow crown stapler produced by Omar. If you must choose to do things this way, at least check and find out which is the correct special model that is used for this. BTW, Omar staplers are good quality and not usually known for jamming, or mis-firing.

Where I was trained they used both variants, one is for stapling flat against the back and the other is used for stapling through the edge of the backing board. I would point out that driving a staple through the edge of an MDF backing board generates a certain amount of MDF dust some of which often ends up inside the frame.

This is a technique used a lot by contract framers, primarily for cheapness. I've never heard of anyone using this method with any boards of the fluted core variety. If you are careful it will work with grey board as a backing board, but it's not really a professional way of doing things. Staples don't hold at all well in polymer frame mouldings and quite often fall out under the sealing tape.

This is not really a particularly smart thing to do if you are looking to promote your image as being a top quality framer. Having said all that, a lot of framers use narrow crown staplers when stacking frame mouldings, or fitting liners, or sloping slip inside frames. In cases such as this, it's difficult to come up with an easier way of doing this and the result can be very neat and professional looking.
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by Rainbow »

I've used a staple gun very occasionally, but the late lamented Roboframer recommended it to me once so I thought it must be OK :D I've taped over the back to make it look neat, I wouldn't send it out without taping. If a double mount suits the artwork, and the most complementary frame has too shallow a rebate, stapling gets round the problem. I explain to the customer why I've had to do it this way and that it's not the normal way that I finish off, but on the odd occasion that I've had to do it, the customer clearly hasn't been bothered. Having said that, I'm not framing priceless fine art. I've got a lightweight Tacwise, which for occasional use on softwood frames has been easy to use and absolutely fine.
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by Not your average framer »

I think that you have to make your own judgement about this, but please make sure that you know why you are, or are not choosing to do this. As I have already stated using staples to secure the backing board tends to work quite well with MDF backing boards and please understand that I'm not making a judgements in this particular discussion about the pros and cons of MDF. However, it is a fact that MDF is still alive and well in much of the framing market and plenty of framers use little else and many of these framers also use narrow crown staples to secure the MDF backing boards.

I started out my life as a framer working in a successful and relatively respected south Devon framing workshop, where the only material used for backing boards was MDF and every back was secured in the frame using staples and I can tell you that for speed, securing the backing board with staples is probably unbeatable by any other method. There was always a layer of mountboard between the artwork and the MDF and nobody working there thought that the use of MDF was in any way not appropriate, but there still are negative aspects to using staples none the less.

One of these negative aspects is the fact that these staples are less easy to remove at times, without causing potential and noticeable damage to the frames. The usual practice in this workshop was to prize the staples out using a bradawl, which generally left dings all around the inside edge at the back of the frame and these dings were not hidden by the new layer of tape on the back when the job was finished. This was quite an up market framers and to be honest, I did not really think that these dings were compatible with the up market image of this particular framing business.

However, it does have to be said that quite a lot of relatively up market framers are still using narrow crown staplers as their preferred method of fixing backing boards. Even after leaving this framers to start my own business, I was still using MDF as my default backing board for at least a couple of years, before I finally switched to other types of backing board. In these early days I did not have a compressed air supply, so I was not able to use a narrow crown stapler, even though if I could that would have been my preferred method of fixing backs.

Eventually I did switch from MDF to other types of backing board, because Devon is a damp county and people did bring back framing to my shop for replacing broken glass, etc. and I discovered just how easy it was for MDF to support mould growth in older houses where damp walls were present. My personal preference for fixing fluted boards would not have been with staples as I think that staples tend to be better with more solid boards.

Where I was trained some of the staplers had a different nose on the Omar stapler which allowed the staple to be fired in the frame flush to the surface of the backing board with a fixed amount of the staple sticking out some distance above the outer surface of the board. Whereas other Omar staplers with a different nose work better with the stapler angled at and angle to the moulding so as to leave one leg of the stapler sticking out a bit. Usually it was the practice with these staplers to fire the shorter leg directly through the backing board.
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by Nicole »

Some really in depth answers thank you for spending the time to help me decide. I would not make a habit of using this method just occasionally it would appear to be the solution.
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by Steve N »

Everybody has their own opinion, I am a professional picture framer, and I staple through the backing into the moulding, I have been using this method for over twenty years, it can be a lot safer than using point as most of you have seen customers carry their frames by the top rail this ca bend and the glass pop out. We use the same backing as Simons Back/10, (we get it local as we used to lose 3-4 inches of each board if Tuffnells delivered it). This method locks the whole frame together and makes a very solid package, a more un-professional way to put together a frame is to use ready made bendy tabs and tape over the top, this way is used by contract framers ,so if there is any dirt in the frame, they bend that tabs and take the back off,and clean, much quicker than taking out points or staples.
This is my opinion, I'm sticking to this method , we use a OVER gun (I'm away on holiday, so don't know the model number) and our customers are not worried about how I fit the backing, as long as it's safe
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by louisesimon »

All the leading London Fine art framers, John Jones, Darbyshire etc, staple the backboards in.
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by poliopete »

louisesimon

Having not had the privilege of visiting any leading London Fine art framers, may I ask what they prefer as a backboard :?:

Peter
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by louisesimon »

I've never visited either, just sometimes get there frames in for repairs or image swaps. They use....MDF
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by Not your average framer »

I was wondering about that. I've also heard that some well respected names, even use MDF for museum quality framing. When you check the FATG specifications, one requirement for museum framing is physical protection, particularly with regard to storage and transport. In this regard, a lot of modern backing materials are a lot more vulnerable to puncture damage, than an appropriate thickness of MDF.

Besides adding a layer of appropriate quality of mountboard between the MDF and the artwork, there are also plenty of available MDF sealants which can be applied to the MDF and with care a suitable sealant can be selected, which renders the surface of the MDF to some degree waterproof and therefore goes some way towards addresses the the well know concerns about MDF and mould growth.

I'm not saying that I particularly like MDF for backing purposes, but there are still a lot of framers, who still use MDF as their default backing board and there are some very good framers still doing so. For myself and no doubt a reasonable number of others, non MDF backing boards can offer advantages as our default backing boards, but I still find that there are times when it is necessary to resort to MDF for additional stiffness, or damage resistance.

Also, as has been already stated staples in conjunction with MDF backs can provide significant additional strength to the securing of backing boards. In most cases I find it adequate to use one of the so called "Conservation type" commercially produced backing boards. In the case of my usual board this has a water resistance brown rear face and an internal white barrier surface, but it does have to be said that there is no recognised standard for so called "conservation backing boards" whatsoever.
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Re: Staple gun for fixing in backboards.

Post by JFeig »

I used the same used Senco pneumatic stapler for over 30 years to fit frames. It came with a modified point where the staples came out that was ground at an angle for easy auto alignment into the frame rails and not into the backing material. The staple hammer was ground down as well so that about 3/8" - 1/2" stood proud of the rail thus holding the backing material. The staples could be bent down for a tighter fit.
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