wessex white core mount board

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BeccaB
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wessex white core mount board

Post by BeccaB »

does any one else use wessex's white core mount board? i'm having a bit of a nightmare and am now beginning to question my sanity!

i've always ordered WCM600. A couple of weeks ago i ordered 10 boards - some came up 20mm smaller and a slightly different thickness and shade to what i had in stock so i checked the website and it seemed to me that they had sent a mix of their white core and their low cost.

phoned them and basically was made to feel like an idiot who doesn't know what she's talking about - being told that theres absolutely no way they could have sent mixed stock and that it apparently wouldn't be out of the ordinary for the white core to be made up at a slightly different size?
i told them i wasn't happy with the boards and wanted them replaced, but the lot they've sent again is a different shade and size to my current stock. Im now wondering if what i've been receiving over the previous months is in fact their low cost and not white core.

Has anyone else noticed a difference?
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Not your average framer »

What's the published size in their catalogue? If it's the published size, or more, any variations in size don't really matter, because you are still getting the quantity that you ordered. If the some of the sheets are below the published size then you've got something to talk to then about. It may just be a problem with their suppliers and nothing that they can do about it at this time.

A few years ago some mountboard suppliers changed their board sizes and maybe the smaller boards are from an earlier batch. In most cases an extra 20mm on the full length of a board is of little consequence and maybe it's not worth making a big deal about it, if you want to continue with this supplier and maintain a really good relationship with them.
Mark Lacey

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BeccaB
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by BeccaB »

Not your average framer wrote:What's the published size in their catalogue? If it's the published size, or more, any variations in size don't really matter, because you are still getting the quantity that you ordered. If the some of the sheets are below the published size then you've got something to talk to then about. It may just be a problem with their suppliers and nothing that they can do about it at this time.

A few years ago some mountboard suppliers changed their board sizes and maybe the smaller boards are from an earlier batch. In most cases an extra 20mm on the full length of a board is of little consequence and maybe it's not worth making a big deal about it, if you want to continue with this supplier and maintain a really good relationship with them.
its not the size thats of concern - i mentioned the size as the 2 different boards are sold with a size difference, hence my thinking that some were the low cost range. These boards dont seem the same quality, and are a different shade - my concern is that the low cost range isn't white core so over time the bevels on the cut mounts will yellow. Other than the fact that they are visibly a different shade, and IMO seem a poorer quality to what i usually get sent, im not sure how i can tell 100% if i've been sent the correct stuff - short of waiting to see if it yellows over time- not ideal! :?
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Not your average framer »

O.K., so you need to determine the difference between these two types of boards. Do you have either digital calipers, or a micrometer, if so measure the thickness of both types of boards. If they are noticably different then they are not of the same manufacture. Also the density of these boards will not be the same if some of these are of an inferior grade.

Just about all neural pH cream core boards will be about 1.25mm thick and quite flexible as the density of neutral pH boards is a lot lower than white core, or conservation mountboard. There may a difference of density between some white core boards and the density of conservation boards, but this will probably depend upon the manufacturer of the boards concerned.

If some of the boards that you have are a different specifications to the remainder of you boards, then you shold be able to discern a difference in pH by using a pH test pen. Alternatively you can cut two identially sized pieces of board, one from each type of board and weigh the two boards using digital kitchen scales. If any of these measurements are significantly different then the two types of mountboard are not the same.

Again you ordered a number of boards which should be quite closely similar in measurable characteristics, if the are not closely similar ask you supplier to explain why.
Mark Lacey

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BeccaB
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by BeccaB »

Not your average framer wrote:O.K., so you need to determine the difference between these two types of boards. Do you have either digital calipers, or a micrometer, if so measure the thickness of both types of boards. If they are noticably different then they are not of the same manufacture. Also the density of these boards will not be the same if some of these are of an inferior grade.

Just about all neural pH cream core boards will be about 1.25mm thick and quite flexible as the density of neutral pH boards is a lot lower than white core, or conservation mountboard. There may a difference of density between some white core boards and the density of conservation boards, but this will probably depend upon the manufacturer of the boards concerned.

If some of the boards that you have are a different specifications to the remainder of you boards, then you shold be able to discern a difference in pH by using a pH test pen. Alternatively you can cut two identially sized pieces of board, one from each type of board and weigh the two boards using digital kitchen scales. If any of these measurements are significantly different then the two types of mountboard are not the same.

Again you ordered a number of boards which should be quite closely similar in measurable characteristics, if the are not closely similar ask you supplier to explain why.
Thats really helpful!! thank you so much!! :D
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by chris62 »

Even lowly white core will yellow over time. It's not conservation M/board
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Not your average framer »

Some white core board is rather poor quality too.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Acro »

BeccaB - have you resolved your problem? I also use Wessex white core mount board and I have always had WCM697. Its a textured board similar in colour to Daler Snow White texture.
Just before Christmas I took delivery of a pack of 10 boards and noticed they were different in both colour and texture. I contacted Wessex who agreed to send out another pack in the new year. They turned up last week and guess what - exactly the same as the pre-Christmas delivery. I sent a sample of my old board back with the driver and then called Oldham the next day. After some discussion they agreed that they have changed supplier for their own-brand mountboard.
I think the boards they are now sending me are more like Polar White with an Ingres texture.
This week they are sending me another delivery to 'see if I like it'. I suspect its going to be the same as the last two :(
Trying to work this out with them over the phone is driving me nuts. The two boards are completely different!
Jamesnkr

Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Jamesnkr »

Acro wrote:I suspect its going to be the same as the last two :(
The two boards are completely different!
Yes, it will be the same as the last as they have - you tell us - changed supplier.

Does it actually matter? None of your customers will actually notice!
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by IFGL »

Daler have moved factory and a few of their boards are unavailable, perhaps this could be a factor.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Not your average framer »

Unfortunately changes like this happen sometimes. I had a favorite mountboard colour from Nielsen Bainbridge, but it suddenly became non-availabe, there was nothing to be done about it and sadly no other manufacturer made anything close to the same colour, so I was stuck. You have already said that the new boards are different, but is there a difference in quality, or specification. Obviously you would like the board to have stayed the same, but maybe the next move is to ask Wessex if it is the same manufacturer, quality and specification.

Also from your own perspective, does the new board cut as nicely as the old one. I think you were suggesting that there might be a difference in board thickness as well, this too is an issue to consider. If the new board is thinner, there may be a reduction in the stiffness of the board, thicker, or more dense boards will tend to remain flatter over time. Of course it's all relative, but may be worth taking into account. Another consideration, if you are a CMC user could be resetting your CMC settings for one board which is thicker, or thinner that your normal settings, which can be a PITA.

Either way, I think we all understand what this is like. Life was a lot easy before things got changed and some changes have consequences which make life less easy, particularly I customers regularly order the same board and can see the difference. I hope that you can get a satisfactory resolution to this issue.
Mark Lacey

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BeccaB
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by BeccaB »

Acro wrote:BeccaB - have you resolved your problem? I also use Wessex white core mount board and I have always had WCM697. Its a textured board similar in colour to Daler Snow White texture.
Just before Christmas I took delivery of a pack of 10 boards and noticed they were different in both colour and texture. I contacted Wessex who agreed to send out another pack in the new year. They turned up last week and guess what - exactly the same as the pre-Christmas delivery. I sent a sample of my old board back with the driver and then called Oldham the next day. After some discussion they agreed that they have changed supplier for their own-brand mountboard.
I think the boards they are now sending me are more like Polar White with an Ingres texture.
This week they are sending me another delivery to 'see if I like it'. I suspect its going to be the same as the last two :(
Trying to work this out with them over the phone is driving me nuts. The two boards are completely different!
Yes i did! :-) i actually had to go into branch with the boards. I spoke with Mike the manager and he instantly said, "yes they've changed" - seems not all staff were informed of this, which is why i was told adamantly on the phone that i was wrong ?! any way as you said, the WCM boards were basically Daler boards but now they are using something different - and while mike is insistent they are just as good, think you'll agree they aren't! its a shame but i guess we've effectively up to now, been getting the Daler boards at a lower cost by ordering them as the WCM range. I'm just going to order the Daler ones now i think as i've always been happy with these for most of what i do.
I'm still a bit of a newbie so often second guess myself with stuff like this, and question if its just 'industry practice' and i'm not experienced to know - i'm glad i wasn't the only one who found issue with this product swap! I think Wessex really should have communicated this to their customers.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by BeccaB »

Not your average framer wrote:Unfortunately changes like this happen sometimes. I had a favorite mountboard colour from Nielsen Bainbridge, but it suddenly became non-availabe, there was nothing to be done about it and sadly no other manufacturer made anything close to the same colour, so I was stuck. You have already said that the new boards are different, but is there a difference in quality, or specification. Obviously you would like the board to have stayed the same, but maybe the next move is to ask Wessex if it is the same manufacturer, quality and specification.

Also from your own perspective, does the new board cut as nicely as the old one. I think you were suggesting that there might be a difference in board thickness as well, this too is an issue to consider. If the new board is thinner, there may be a reduction in the stiffness of the board, thicker, or more dense boards will tend to remain flatter over time. Of course it's all relative, but may be worth taking into account. Another consideration, if you are a CMC user could be resetting your CMC settings for one board which is thicker, or thinner that your normal settings, which can be a PITA.

Either way, I think we all understand what this is like. Life was a lot easy before things got changed and some changes have consequences which make life less easy, particularly I customers regularly order the same board and can see the difference. I hope that you can get a satisfactory resolution to this issue.
Not your average framer wrote:Unfortunately changes like this happen sometimes. I had a favorite mountboard colour from Nielsen Bainbridge, but it suddenly became non-availabe, there was nothing to be done about it and sadly no other manufacturer made anything close to the same colour, so I was stuck. You have already said that the new boards are different, but is there a difference in quality, or specification. Obviously you would like the board to have stayed the same, but maybe the next move is to ask Wessex if it is the same manufacturer, quality and specification.

Also from your own perspective, does the new board cut as nicely as the old one. I think you were suggesting that there might be a difference in board thickness as well, this too is an issue to consider. If the new board is thinner, there may be a reduction in the stiffness of the board, thicker, or more dense boards will tend to remain flatter over time. Of course it's all relative, but may be worth taking into account. Another consideration, if you are a CMC user could be resetting your CMC settings for one board which is thicker, or thinner that your normal settings, which can be a PITA.

Either way, I think we all understand what this is like. Life was a lot easy before things got changed and some changes have consequences which make life less easy, particularly I customers regularly order the same board and can see the difference. I hope that you can get a satisfactory resolution to this issue.
Thanks Mark, it wasn't just that it was different, it just simply seemed poorer quality & i think i was more annoyed by how my query was handled TBH. Any way turns out it was a completely different board, by a different manufacturer, wessex just didn't think it necessary to inform anyone it was changing/had changed - even their staff lol!
All sorted now I know this info :-)
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Acro »

Thanks Becca and others. Looks like I am having a very similar branch experience - they don't seem to learn. I did contemplate driving up to Oldham to throttle somebody but its a 3 hour round trip so probably not.
The 10 boards they delivered yesterday were, as predicted, the same as the previous two deliveries. My problem is that I have stock in browsers in shops and galleries and when I start using the new board the colour will look different when they are side by side. My old board was off-white and the new one is white white.
I too may have to change supplier, although I also had problems with Daler quality a few years ago.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Not your average framer »

Is this change with just this one colour in the range, or does the change apply to other colours? It might be the smart move to find out if there are other changes happening which you just don't know about at this time.

Most of these budget price mount boards are substantially lower price than the full price boards from the same manufacturer as a branded product. This could make life more difficult if you are thinking about absorbing the extra cost yourself. Therefore it is probably better to get any pricing issues sorted sooner, rather than later.

Bearing in mind that it is traditionally in February that suppliers in this industry issue their new price lists this might be the right time and justification to make any necessary price adjustment, if you decide that you need to do so. I guess you could do without all this hassle.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by IFGL »

Acro wrote:Thanks Becca and others. Looks like I am having a very similar branch experience - they don't seem to learn. I did contemplate driving up to Oldham to throttle somebody but its a 3 hour round trip so probably not.
The 10 boards they delivered yesterday were, as predicted, the same as the previous two deliveries. My problem is that I have stock in browsers in shops and galleries and when I start using the new board the colour will look different when they are side by side. My old board was off-white and the new one is white white.
I too may have to change supplier, although I also had problems with Daler quality a few years ago.
Most suppliers own brand economy board is Daler save Simons which is colourmount.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Not your average framer »

I wonder what may be behind the change to this mountboard. I don't suppose that Daler are necessarliy not making this particular board any more and I am also not forgetting the Wessex connection with Crescent and Britainia mountboards. As far as I know, Britainia boards are actually produced by Crescent in a factory in Holland. Could this be the run up to Crescent looking to getting into the budget mountboard market in the UK. They might be thinking that it could make sense and if so Wessex would be well placed to distribute such a mountboard, possibly under it's own name. Maybe it sounds a bit far fetched, but there could be some logic to it.

In general Wessex are a really switched on organisation, with a really good reputation to it's customers and I can't remember any occasion when I would say that they ever got anything wrong, or not made the right move. Also they only carry a limited part of the Colourmount range, whereas they have a fairly in depth stock of Crescent and Britainia mountboards. It would be out of character for Wessex to get things like this wrong. I'm not sure that I would give up on Wessex just yet, I think that it might be worth waiting to see where the outcome of all this could be going.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by IFGL »

Daler have just moved factory some boards are is short supply.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by Not your average framer »

So this may only be a termporary situation.
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Re: wessex white core mount board

Post by samsphotolab »

I use the "White Display Board" - DISB2 - and the most recent delivery the board was quite different - the previous was much more glossy and felt more ridged - the new is more mat and feels less rigid.
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