You Tube Video - The Mount Package

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You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by span2iels »

I hope for some lively comments/discussions on my next video entitled 'The Mount Package'. A little longer than previous but it covers more aspects. Please remember these are my ideas and thoughts gathered from a reasonable amount of research over a number of years. I am very much aware that there are many ways of approaching and completing the tasks etc detailed in this video but if one essentially ends up with the same results then thats ok with me.

The link is; https://youtu.be/JelY3aCVBrU

The subjects/tasks discussed and materials used are at the Guild's Conservation level and one can always substitute lesser quality materials thereby going down a step to Commended level; however, it is my advice to those who come on my workshops is 'wherever possible always upgrade to better quality material'.

I am presently thinking of a subject for my next video attempt.

Hope you enjoy what the video offers.

Kind Regards

Mal
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by poliopete »

Another excellent video that I an sure will be appreciated by all framers. :clap:

One question, why the small gap between the two boards when taping the book mount? I have always taped the two boards touching thinking there would be no "play" and no risk of movement. :? A small difference I know and I look forward to learning the reason.

Once again thank you for taking the trouble to make and post the vidio.

Peter.
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by span2iels »

Good Morning Peter

The small gap between the boards is nothing more than to make the folding of the boards together easy. As stated in the video the width is minimal around 2mm, the boards are cut to the same size and once they are folded together they are aligned. When using linen tape I sometimes place my heavy straight edge along the join to ensure the adhesive has taken, whilst waiting I go and mitre the moulding.

An additional tape one might try is Tyvek tape which is thin but an exceptionally strong tape, ideal for joining the boards together but far too strong for hingeing.

I hope this helps.

Kind Regards

Mal
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by poliopete »

Good afternoon Mal

Thank you for your reply and explanation for leaving a small gap between your boards.

I too can always find another job to do while waiting for something to adhere or dry.

Peter.
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by maguirei »

Sorry to butt in, but I still don't understand why you would leave a gap of 2mm between the boards when attaching the mount to the undermount. When you flatten the "hinge" that 2mm has to go somewhere - i.e. stick out 1mm at the side- which doesn't look good in my opinion and could get damaged / weakened when putting into the frame. The only reason I would put a 2mm gap is perhaps if the artwork was 2mm thick.
Apologies if I have missed something.
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by StevenG »

maguirei wrote:Sorry to butt in, but I still don't understand why you would leave a gap of 2mm between the boards when attaching the mount to the undermount. When you flatten the "hinge" that 2mm has to go somewhere - i.e. stick out 1mm at the side- which doesn't look good in my opinion and could get damaged / weakened when putting into the frame. The only reason I would put a 2mm gap is perhaps if the artwork was 2mm thick.
Apologies if I have missed something.

I agree although I think it's me that's missing something too, when I done the GCF training we were told that the boards had to be snug. Anyway, Mal's history & knowledge supersedes any rambling I might have :)
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by span2iels »

Just a quick note on this issue about the small gap. To confirm I am not using ATG tape to adhere the window mount to the undermount. If the boards are butt together a number of problems may arise. First, there will be difficulty in folding the boards together which in turn may cause the tape to pull apart, weaken or, in the worst case scenario tear and second, using a small gap results in the two boards being slightly apart when folded thereby allowing the artwork to sit comfortably between the two boards, specifically if the artwork is on heavy paper and to a certain extent very lightweight paper which may tear should it be subject to tension caused by the two boards being too tight together.

I am pleased that we can have this discussion which helps everyone.

Best Regards

Mal
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by maguirei »

Hi Mal,
I'm sorry but I'm not convinced by your argument!
If the boards are butted together and then taped (say with water based tape) and you then fold them together, that is just like folding a piece of tape over (e.g. to make a V hinge). I really can't see any problem with that. However, I do see a problem with leaving a gap and then this access tape sticking out at the side (which it has to). Also unless your mount is very narrow e.g. 1cm, then I can't see this putting any significant pressure on the artwork.
I do hope that your suggested procedure is not being adopted as the FATG recommended way to do things!
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by span2iels »

Thanks once again for your comment but I am afraid we choose to disagree. Should you care to research this subject then you will find that this is adopted by a number of UK institutions and well known conservators.

Finally please note the sentence in my original post as follows;

"Please remember these are my ideas and thoughts gathered from a reasonable amount of research over a number of years. I am very much aware that there are many ways of approaching and completing the tasks etc detailed in this video but if one essentially ends up with the same results then thats ok with me."
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by Jamesnkr »

span2iels wrote:and to a certain extent very lightweight paper which may tear should it be subject to tension caused by the two boards being too tight together.
Really? Disagree emphatically.

Whatever tape you are using it is at least as thick as very lightweight paper. Moreover, you have two thicknesses of it holding your sandwich together so the tape will *always* be thicker than your very lightweight paper that you're apparently trying to protect. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist and you're adding unnecessary time-wasting complexity.

If the artwork is on such thick heavy paper or thick card then you should be using a shim all round by using a window (or strips of card/board) between your upper mount and bottom mount - at which point I agree you need to leave a gap between the two boards in the way you describe.
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by Not your average framer »

Maybe not everyone knows who Mal is. Mal has been a member of the Framing Standards and Qualifications Committee of The Fine Art Trade Guild since 2007 and its Chair since 2014 and is a well respected teacher in our industry. Some of us think that we are fortunate that Mal chooses to share his material on our forum.

http://www.harlequin-frames.co.uk/about ... ds-gcf-adv
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by maguirei »

I agree that it's very good of Mal to share this video - but it doesn't mean that he is always correct :D
I notice the video is on the FATG site - presumably as the FATG recommended way of doing things. That makes it all the more important to discuss the content.
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by JohnMcafee »

Perfectly right maguirei.

To be honest I just thought that span2iels must be correct given his track record, but now you have put a doubt in my mind. And I agree that it is great to be able to discuss matters such as this on the forum.

However, I'm kind of undecided at the moment. So, can you explain, in a way that I can understand, where span2iels has gone wrong? I'm finding it difficult to understand your previous comments on this thread.
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by maguirei »

OK I'll try.
When you tape the mount to the undermount, you tape along the longest side.
When I do this I make sure that the mount is right up to the undermount before I tape the two together.
When Mal does this he leaves a gap of around 2mm before he applies the tape. I would argue that when you fold the mount onto the under mount, this excess tape will stick out - by around 1mm. This would mean that when you put this package in the frame, it will be offset by 1mm. I would also argue that this method this is more likely to allow movement of the window mount in relation to the undermount - which could be important if your window needs to be quite near to the edge of the item you are framing.
I suppose that I can see several reasons NOT to do what Mal is suggesting, but no reasons FOR doing it.
I can see why some conservators might suggest a looser package if you are simply placing the mounted item in a draw for storage . However, I can't see why this would apply if you are framing the item.
This is of course is only one small part of the useful video Mal has put together. However, when it was raised by another forum member, I felt I had to point out my reservations.
Hope this helps.
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by JohnMcafee »

OK, I think I understand what you are saying, but it raises a couple of questions for me.

Is there a reason for taping along the longest side? I have always taped along the top edge, do you think this is wrong? In my case the 1mm excess would have no impact on the positioning of the mount within the frame, but this brings me to another question. should the frame be a tight fit around the mount?

If the mount/undermount sandwich is resting on the bottom of the frame should we be worried about the possibility of relative movement between them? If so, how might this happen?
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by maguirei »

I was taught to tape the longest side as this would give the most secure join - particularly if you have a very narrow but tall item to frame. I guess for most items this won't make much practical difference.
If you always tape along the top, then the 1mm probably won't cause a problem, but if you tape down the side that the mount will be pushed across 1mm off centre in the frame. For wide mounts this won't be noticeable, for for narrow ones it might.
I agree that once the package is resting on the bottom of the frame and the frame is hung up, there won't be much movement. However, when the frame is being transported and also when you are putting the frame together, then this might be a problem. This is only the case where the position of the window mount is absolutely crucial - but I'm sure you will have had cases where a vital signature it right at the edge of a print!
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by JohnMcafee »

Now that I've got a better grasp of your concerns, I can see that you have clearly put some thought into this, but I'm just not convinced that the 1mm you talk about would have a negative impact in the real world of framing.

Sorry, it's a bit too nit-picky for me.
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by maguirei »

I agree it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things - so why bother actively leaving a gap when it's not necessary? Much easier to tape them with no gap isn't it?
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by JohnMcafee »

Certainly not worth trampling over span2iels original post for, though!
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Re: You Tube Video - The Mount Package

Post by Framemaker Richard »

The approx 2mm gap is the standard practice at the British Museum for mounting and making window mounts... I wonder what their reason is for doing it? I'm not saying do it just because they do, but I imagine they do it for a reason.

I would have thought that it is to do with the fact that the piece being mounted is slightly raised off the undermount, so the tiny gap allowance takes this into account.
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