Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

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Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Sat 17 Mar, 2018 7:22 pm

Has anyone actually got one of these I am seriously thinking of buying one within the next week or so.

They sound on paper (electronic paper that is) the ideal solution for my requirements and my space availability just wondering about reliability and user friendliness etc.

I am aware it takes cartridges but the low volume I do at the moment would not be a deal breaker, The bit I like the sound of the most is the clamping system and the fact it automatically adjusts the pressure accordingly.

Also open to alternative recommendations.

looked at the Alfamacchine U400S but not sure about having to change heads for v's and also have to manually adjust pressure but would like to hear opinions of existing owners of theses also

Thanks Paul

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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by fusionframer » Sun 18 Mar, 2018 11:43 am

Depends what sort of frames you are intending to do to some extent. Cassese, alpha and other main brands are all good so you can't go too far wrong.

The reason i say depends on type of framing, as an example, i use a lot of the wider mouldings for frames i make. I have a gielle 4000e which has the double clamp option and makes joining wider frames easier, whilst still being easy to join narrow mouldings as you can switch between 1 or 2 clamps. It doesn't change the clamp pressure automatically, but you can adjust the top clamp independently of other functions.

This machine suits my needs perfectly, but may be the wrong for other framers. There is also the point it is what machine you are used to using that matters. I bet there are framers who have underpinners they have had for years, and they are used to it (and maybe things that don't quite work normally anymore) and another framer would find it hard to use.

I would suggest that you think about what plans you have for your business and whether you see this as thw right machine moving forward, and given the financial outlay involved, find somewhere to try one if you have not done so yet.

Good luck
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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Sun 18 Mar, 2018 9:04 pm

Thank you for your input I was not even aware of the 4000e, apparently built like a tank with the weight to match, understand spares are direct from Italy, Wessex being agents for them.
Since my original post I have now gained the use of half my garage that was assigned for other use, so now space it not so much a consideration.
My local Wessex (Ashford,Kent) only has foot operated underpinners for demo so will phone others, I’m SE based.
I think D & J Simons & Sons said they have a vast range of machinery for demo


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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by fusionframer » Sun 18 Mar, 2018 11:12 pm

I was thinking this afternoon, and as well as the double clamps, the one thing that was an absolute must for me was a separate nail firing trigger to the clamping of the frame.

My underpinner has a foot pedal which when pressed, applies all the clamps. You then have the chance to check that you are happy with the position and you then fire the wedge with a button.

I know that some underpinners have the 2 position foot pedal, so part depressed will clamp, and then fully depressed fires the clamp, but for me (i have one ankle joint fused which doesn't help) this does not give me the control i want.

I had a euro before and that had the same system, so it may be what you get used to, but if you have the time, it is worth taking time to choose what is going to work for your business.

The cassese cs20 you mentioned is a great machine so it may be perfect for you. Some framers couldn't operate without their cmc mountcutter, but for me, i could not justify it for my business, i have a wall mounted machine, but as i rarely do just mounts, a cmc won't make sense. Once you have worked out what you core business is going to be, you can decide on the best equipment.

Nick
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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by fusionframer » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 9:50 am

If you had been closer, you would have been more than welcome to try my underpinner out. Perhaps there are framers closer to you that have different models you can try. This is meant as no disrespect for the sales reps at frame suppliers, but framers would be able to provide a better demonstration of their machine.

Maybe others may not be as keen, especially if they are relatively local, they may think that they are assisting a potential competitor. Personally, i got a massive amount of help when i was starting from another framer not far from me, so i am always happy to help.

Anyway, maybe there are framers not too far who have machines you could try.

Cheers

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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 10:28 am

There is a CS 486 on ebay £1200 but distance and worrying about electronic board failure etc and possible costly repairs & replacement of parts, Looks the biz but think I will buy new but budget £2k


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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Not your average framer » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 2:35 pm

Have you checked the maximum width and height of mouldings that this machine will accommodate? Not all machines will accommodate the same size of mouldings and it is worth comparing different machines on this particular aspect, before spending your money.
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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Mark Thornton » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 9:34 pm

I know Paul has discounted my Cs486 but here's a video anyway!
https://www.underpinner-spares.co.uk/co ... assese-486



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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 9:42 pm

Hi Mark
I was just reading up on them I didn't realise It was one you had refurbished and I am now interested

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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 9:48 pm

Was just trying to find the difference between the CS486 & CS486XL and does it have the good clamp system that pushes the mitres tight
Is it is like the new MACH 1 CART

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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Mark Thornton » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 10:48 pm

Cassese added more control panel options to the XL
The main differences between the 486 and the xl version are the number of positions you can place a wedge and the number of wedges in each position.
486 = up to 2 positions and upto 3 wedges in each
486xl = upto 6 positions and upto 6 wedges in each

Clamping systems are the same.
486 = pneumatic forward/backward movement
486xl = electric motor forward/backward movement

The xl could also accept mouldings upto 6 inch wide mouldings the regular 486 accepts upto 5 inch wide mouldings.

The Mach machines are all evolved from the 486/3099 machines.

For a Mach version you would have to substantially increase your £2k budget but you may (if you're lucky) find an XL for about that price.

Mark
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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Sat 24 Mar, 2018 9:22 am

Been having a think about the underpinner situation and have arranged to try a cs20 on Monday but as I am very committed to making a go of the framing I have thought more after some feed back on here about maybe investing a bit more on a larger capacity Cs200 but now wondering if best to go for the cs20 and if the need arises a Hoffman.
Also still considering the one Mark has for sale on this thread


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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by fusionframer » Sun 25 Mar, 2018 10:45 am

I have made a few mistakes when buying equipment. When i first decided to try framing, i bought a logan mount cutter and soon realised that it was not as accurate and i sold it and got a fletcher. I sold the logan but i lost over £100 as a result.

With the cs20, you have an excellent machine, but you need to decide if it will do all the jobs you plan to do.

When i started doing larger frames quite a bit, and i was doing some joinery jobs, i purchased a record bench morticer. It was great for small jobs, but soon, things progressed and i had my first oak door to make with 5 inch through mortices. Suddenly, my morticer was inadequate, so i had to get a big trade rated morticer.

I know that it is difficult to know what is going to happen, vut i now work on basis that i get the best machine i can afford so it can be overkill to start with, but the extra features are there if needed.

The one thing i have done with all my big machine purchases is buy second hand as i can get more machine for my money.

That is just my experience anyway.

Good luck
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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Not your average framer » Sun 25 Mar, 2018 5:30 pm

I can also echo what Fusionframer is saying. I've only recently been buying various woodworking machinery items, sure they will do what they say that they will, but if you want more - forget it. The trouble is that your needs and desires expand beyond your original horizions almost as soon as you start finding out how much you can now do with your new equipment items.

Don't buy something that you will outgrow too soon, it happens quicker than you think.
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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Thu 29 Mar, 2018 3:34 pm

Thanks for all the advice particularly took on board the need to future proof.
So took the plunge and now the proud owner of a brand new CS200 all set up and ready to go, now where are all those jobs to pay for it [emoji3][img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201803 ... 765acf.jpg[/img]


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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by poliopete » Thu 29 Mar, 2018 4:55 pm

Congratulations Paul :clap: :clap: I'm sure you won't regret it :D

Peter.

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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Thu 29 Mar, 2018 7:33 pm

IMG_2358.JPG
IMG_2358.JPG (881.97 KiB) Viewed 3932 times
Picture of my new CS200 sorry its not the correct orintation

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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by featurepiece » Thu 29 Mar, 2018 9:17 pm

Looks good - nice and shiny :clap:

I've been looking at that model for a while but I can't really get much information. If you get a chance would you mind sharing your experience please :)

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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by Ed209 » Thu 29 Mar, 2018 11:15 pm

I did actually go with the intension of trying and buying the cs20 but the CS200 kept looking at me and beckoning me over after trying the two the CS200 won me over but also relived me of considerably more than I had intended to pay.
First Impressions I am glad I went and saw one and had a go as the instructions are a bit vague
Set up was extremely easy, came in a crate just cut two straps and the box lifts of the pallet then the machine is bolted to the pallet through the tapings for the feet so just un bolt slide to edge of pallet then screw feet in .
I swapped over the provided male air connection provided for the one that I use for other air tools and was ready to go
Very powerful rebate clamps it squeezes more than I can manage by hand pressure and the top clamp just let it do its thing it self adjusts to required pressure and have tried on Polcore, oak and softwood and no marking of mouldings
It was not over keen on stacking wedges in Oak with hard or softwood wedges in fact all it managed with the softwood was to put them beside each other.
The cartridges are very easy to load and swap over and air driven as opposed to a spring
Spent half a hour head scratching as it would not fire with only one moulding in as I wanted to see it working like I have done with my manual under pinner with just one half in it, So looked in book after checking for jams etc. And it is a safety feature both horizontal clamps need to be in contact.
So far so good will update (only used it for about two hours so far)

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Re: Cassese CS20 Cartridge Pnuematic underpinner

Post by fusionframer » Fri 30 Mar, 2018 10:04 am

Pretty sure that hard wedges not designed for stacking.

For deeper hard woods, i pin, then use a strap clamp (just cheapish ones)

Good luck with it all.

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